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Thread: JBL 4355 clone with different woofers

  1. #31
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    ...in August I intend to build a prototype to test and work on for the crossover

  2. #32
    Senior Member jbl4ever's Avatar
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    I would still get the 2202s and the 2441s just in case you decide to build the 4355s later. These components are getting harder to find in excellent condition. Your other component choices will yield you a very nice sounding system. I have tried similar with the 4508 cabinets with 2-2226Hs biamped then used the 3120A and a 3106 with your components. Had the 2226s xovered at 350hz on a 24 db

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbl4ever View Post
    I would still get the 2202s and the 2441s just in case you decide to build the 4355s later. These components are getting harder to find in excellent condition. Your other component choices will yield you a very nice sounding system. I have tried similar with the 4508 cabinets with 2-2226Hs biamped then used the 3120A and a 3106 with your components. Had the 2226s xovered at 350hz on a 24 db
    And what do you think about 2204 and 2446?
    Giuseppe

  4. #34
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    Those are fine drivers, they just aren't the best for the application you originally described, cloning a 4355. I've listened to 2446s on a number of horns for decades from 30 meters away. They are not a driver I would want to listen to in my living room.

    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    And what do you think about 2204 and 2446?
    Giuseppe

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Those are fine drivers, they just aren't the best for the application you originally described, cloning a 4355. I've listened to 2446s on a number of horns for decades from 30 meters away. They are not a driver I would want to listen to in my living room.
    I have the problem to find in Italy the JBL 2202 and 2441: is there another choice in JBL vintage components?
    Giuseppe

  6. #36
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    I have the problem to find in Italy the JBL 2202 and 2441: is there another choice in JBL vintage components?
    Giuseppe
    I would look for a pair of 2450's with SL diaphragms. Huge weight savings and smoother top end with the coated diaphragms. Just make sure you get a 2450 and not a 2450SL which is 1.5"

    http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...-comp/2450.htm

    Rob
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  7. #37
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    The most cost effective way to have the sound of the original 2441 driver is probably to buy a pair of 2445 drivers ( very cheap and available on eBay ) and replace the diaphragms with the Radian 1245 aluminum version. You can certainly use the 2204 or 2206 mid bass drivers in place of the 2202. You'll end up with a slightly different end result but since you will likely ( should ) be bi-amping between the woofers and the mid bass you will have the opportunity use the electronic crossover for correction there too. Modern measurement tools and DSP crossovers make it possible to get very good results even when straying from a classic design.

    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    I have the problem to find in Italy the JBL 2202 and 2441: is there another choice in JBL vintage components?
    Giuseppe

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    The most cost effective way to have the sound of the original 2441 driver is probably to buy a pair of 2445 drivers ( very cheap and available on eBay ) and replace the diaphragms with the Radian 1245 aluminum version. You can certainly use the 2204 or 2206 mid bass drivers in place of the 2202. You'll end up with a slightly different end result but since you will likely ( should ) be bi-amping between the woofers and the mid bass you will have the opportunity use the electronic crossover for correction there too. Modern measurement tools and DSP crossovers make it possible to get very good results even when straying from a classic design.
    Thank you very much for your reply Riley, I will get a pair of JBL 2445 + 2311 and 2308 next week. For the mid bass I'd prefer the 2202 but I'm afraid I'll have to wait.
    Giuseppe

  9. #39
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    Thank you very much for your reply Riley, I will get a pair of JBL 2445 + 2311 and 2308 next week. For the mid bass I'd prefer the 2202 but I'm afraid I'll have to wait.
    Giuseppe
    FWIW: Finding very clean examples of these components is difficult even here in California. Beat up out of spec woofers and compression drivers are the norm.

    Since JBL no longer offers support for their products, it can be very difficult to restore a driver that has been abused or become out of spec. Patience is going to be required.

    Good Luck in your quest.


    Widget

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    FWIW: Finding very clean examples of these components is difficult even here in California. Beat up out of spec woofers and compression drivers are the norm.

    Since JBL no longer offers support for their products, it can be very difficult to restore a driver that has been abused or become out of spec. Patience is going to be required.

    Good Luck in your quest.


    Widget
    Thanks for your reply. I know it is difficult to find these components and the spare parts are not JBL but to hear who is in the sector (I'm talking about a friend of mine) they are not bad. I see you are from San Francisco, I love your city! I was there two years ago for the last time, then due to COVID I didn't travel anymore. I usually spend the whole month of August in San Francisco, I really enjoy wandering around the Bay Area, even if it's a bit expensive.
    Giuseppe

  11. #41
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Since your intention is to clone a 4355 you need to keep in mind an important factor: you're on a defined sub-chamber volume for the low mid driver, 48 liters (1.7 cu.ft).

    Taking into account Widget's wisdom about the 2202 availability and condition, then you need to ask yourself which of the other two, 2204 or 2206, would be a better fit technically for such a small chamber. I think its the 2206 for various reasons, plus its more readily available.

    Though both have the same sensitivity number rating, the cruel reality is that 2204 has 1.8% efficiency (94.5 db)and the 2206 has 2.5% efficiency (96 db) as per Eargle's table. 1.5 db isn't a lot but it counts in view of your double 2226 planned (100 db), though bi-amping is in the air. The 2206 also has flatter response, lower distortion, and higher power capability in case you get there.

    Moreover, again with a view of a pre-determined sub-chamber volume, the 2206 has little lower Qts than 2204 (helps a little), and a notably lower Vas parameter, about a cubic foot less, helping further in "fitting the foot in the shoe", etc.

    Richard

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Since your intention is to clone a 4355 you need to keep in mind an important factor: you're on a defined sub-chamber volume for the low mid driver, 48 liters (1.7 cu.ft).

    Taking into account Widget's wisdom about the 2202 availability and condition, then you need to ask yourself which of the other two, 2204 or 2206, would be a better fit technically for such a small chamber. I think its the 2206 for various reasons, plus its more readily available.

    Though both have the same sensitivity number rating, the cruel reality is that 2204 has 1.8% efficiency (94.5 db)and the 2206 has 2.5% efficiency (96 db) as per Eargle's table. 1.5 db isn't a lot but it counts in view of your double 2226 planned (100 db), though bi-amping is in the air. The 2206 also has flatter response, lower distortion, and higher power capability in case you get there.

    Moreover, again with a view of a pre-determined sub-chamber volume, the 2206 has little lower Qts than 2204 (helps a little), and a notably lower Vas parameter, about a cubic foot less, helping further in "fitting the foot in the shoe", etc.

    Richard

    I have calculated the volumes, and I think that to be in line with the efficiency of the woofers and the other routes I must necessarily find a pair of 2202 since both the 2204 and the 2206 have a difference of -4 db. The biggest problem is finding a pair of 2202s in good condition and at a fair price. In the USA I occasionally see some offers but the seller does not ship to Italy and if he does send I would have to consider the costs even if I have my own courier. I opened this thread by calling it "JBL 4355 clone with different woofers" because I had a bad experience with foam woofers (I own another DIY design with a 2231 and a pair of L112s) that need to be reordered every now and then. I chose 2226 because I liked it even if I will have to give up a little something below. I will keep the same volume as the 4355: I calculated that with the different woofers it should be reduced by 30 liters (147/117) and somehow I will reduce it without changing the dimensions of the cabinet. For this reason I want to first build a prototype to work on and be able to do live measurements.
    Giuseppe

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    I want to first build a prototype to work on and be able to do live measurements.
    Giuseppe
    Finding 2202 is going to be difficult. You might want to consider a different midrange speaker. 2123's are readily available and have enough sensitivity. Another consideration would be baffle layout. The way the drivers in the 4350 are set up you need to be some distance away. You might want to consider a more vertical arrangement for the mid high uhf drivers.

    Rob
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Finding 2202 is going to be difficult. You might want to consider a different midrange speaker. 2123's are readily available and have enough sensitivity. Another consideration would be baffle layout. The way the drivers in the 4350 are set up you need to be some distance away. You might want to consider a more vertical arrangement for the mid high uhf drivers.

    Rob
    I have a pair of JBL 2123 but I want to reply as much as possible the 4355. If someone in "Lansing Heritage" has a pair of 2202 in good conditions let me know!
    Giuseppe

  15. #45
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    I have a pair of JBL 2123 but I want to reply as much as possible the 4355. If someone in "Lansing Heritage" has a pair of 2202 in good conditions let me know!
    Giuseppe
    OK that's good you have a fall back driver. Best of luck on the 2202's unfortunately they are few and far between.

    Rob

    No affiliation just a heads up only a single 2202B


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