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Thread: 18" bass bin design for hi fi

  1. #1
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    18" bass bin design for hi fi

    Hi, please help me

    I want to build a pair of speakers with some vintage lansing parts

    I like the idea of compression style like lascala, also I have the plans for diy for la scala series 1, that uses 15" woofer, I only want to use the lascala bass bin design , I dont want to incorporate mid and high inside the speaker cabinet.

    but I have a 18" woofers that I want to use

    could somebody can gave me an advice for a good bass bin design for hi fi

    thanks in advance

    18" 16 ohm woofers with jbl 3115 crossover- I dont know the crossover frequency for the woofer , somebody please help me on this ?
    2445 16 0hm drivers with 2380 horns crossover 500hz
    2404 tweeter 3105 crossover 7000hz
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  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    What is the model number of your woofers? Are you sure they are 18”? Most JBL woofers are not really designed for horn loading.


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    Thanks for your answer

    18" electro voice ev1
    15" are le15a



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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I don’t know anything about that Electro-Voice woofer, but the LE15A is best used in a bass reflex design.


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    It helps to remember that the early Klipsch bass horns were designed largely to increase SPL in the days of 15 watt amplifiers. The La Scala in particular was a real compromise between size and performance. Modern amps and 18" speakers make possible much more linear designs. 18" drivers were designed to improve low frequency response at the expense of lower midrange response. A smaller cone mid bass driver like an 8-10-12" between the 18 and the compression driver will make for a much better design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardocastrejo View Post
    ...

    I like the idea of compression style like lascala, also I have the plans for diy for la scala series 1, that uses 15" woofer, I only want to use the lascala bass bin design , I dont want to incorporate mid and high inside the speaker cabinet...

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    Electro-voice

    EV does not as far as I know publish T/S parameters for their drive elements , so if you wish to truly engineer something you will simply have to measure and model. It may or may not be a good candidate for horn loading.

    But that said their subwoofers are aimed at the pro-sound market. I suspect you are going to find the Fs for the 18" woofer to be higher than you might expect. That driver is normally used in a vented enclosure and is intend to have a steep high pass filter applied at 35- 40 Hz to limit low end excursion and output.

    Cyclotronguy

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    Arrow

    thanks for your answers

    the woofers need to be rebuilt, and the coils are handmade locally, i supose that diferent coils change the parameters of the woofer compared with oem coil
    then, after rebuilt what do I need to measure ?
    I dont have a lot of options locally, I only know that needs to be 16 ohm to work join with the 3115 crossover ( could somebody tell me what is the frecuency range for woofer with 3115 corssover )
    I like the idea of compressed bass bin but if not work properly, and other style like reflex works better, I can change of idea, can be ether 15 or 18" woofers
    the room is about 345 ft2 with a height of 8.5 f

    this are the specs for the ev 18"
    https://products.electrovoice.com/bi...20II%20EDS.pdf

    thanks in advance

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    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    I might have a copy of the EV TL-505 plans mentioned in the EV spec sheet. No time to check now but i'll be back later tonight, need to find it in my other computer if have it or not, i think i have it but memory sometimes...

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Personally, I wouldn’t place too much importance on that old crossover. Here is a basic sheet on it, the schematics are also available, but I would suggest selling them and going another route.

    http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...crossovers.htm

    Regarding winding a new “16” ohm coil... I imagine you can get a new coil installed and get the woofer working again, but you will really have a lot of unknowns there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    I might have a copy of the EV TL-505 plans mentioned in the EV spec sheet. No time to check now but i'll be back later tonight, need to find it in my other computer if have it or not, i think i have it but memory sometimes...
    I Cant found complete plans

    i want to try this old crossovers, if not I already have an old dbx electronic crossover , I dont want to biamp or triamp

    i already have reflex speakers, I prefer compression or sealed enclosure
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  11. #11
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Eduardo,

    I searched my EV stuff and here's what i have with regards to box plans.

    TL-405/505 plans, both for the EVM-18B woofer, however i understand you're less interested in vented box. (Have others but not relevant here).

    I can't remember seeing an EV plan using a sealed box, maybe an odd one, their main business being vented or horn loaded enclosures.

    Of the four Pro horn loading plans i have, none of them is for an 18" woofer and i don't recall ever seeing one distributed by EV.They are:

    - Eliminator for one 15" (model may vary, like EVM 15B or SRO-15)

    - TL-4025 for one EVM 15L

    - TL-4050 for two EVM 15L

    - TL-5050 for two EVM 12L

    The 18" horn loaded cabs for which i have plans, one is from Fane Acoustics and the other from JBL for the K151 W horn (designed by D.B. Keele; maybe also for 2240H).

    For the woofers you have on-hand, its unlikely you can make a valid horn cab with a LE15A having a large Vas parameter, plus a foam surround and their often longer excursion (risk of cone hitting horn throat, as mentioned for JBL 4560 and 4550 cabs for example).

    With regards to the EV 18", you would need to compare carefully its parameters with those of the K151 (or 2240H) to see if that EV can be an acceptable substitute in the JBL "W horn" designed by Keele. Regards,

    Richard

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    The Don Keele W18 bass horn was fine for it's day, I certainly built and used a few but they were not something I'd go with by choice looking back after forty years of improvements in speaker and amplifier designs. A few people made 4530 bass horns modified for use with 18" drivers and that might be a good choice if you can track down the plans. They certainly sounded better than the W horns with the caveat that those designs were intended for use with a mid-bass horn like a 4560 or Martin twin 15 horn above them crossing over around 100 hz.

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    OK
    what is the worst that could happen if I use the 15" woofer rebuilt to 16 ohm and use a lascala clone bass bin ?, I guess some tuning could be made by changing the size (width) of the window ? focused in mid bass
    can i sent a particular tone and read by eq wizard to fine tuning ?, is this possible ?
    I already have the lascala 1 plans, but im lost with the size of the window with the woofers that I have

    thanks alot for your help, this a nostalgic theme for me

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    If the La Scala horn enclosure is the nostalgia part perhaps ask Google for a vintage Klipsch forum. What is nostalgic about a 16 ohm woofer rather than an 8 ohm though? Certainly you can tune a new, custom designed, out of the lane speaker system with an FFT analysis app like Smaart or REW and a DSP crossover. If you're adamant about using a passive crossover you can use the data gained from the analysis to emulate the characteristics you arrive at in the DSP crossover to design a passive network. It's a helluva lot of work but perfectly doable. Also keep in mind that the La Scala used phenolic diaphragm midrange drivers ( voice horn drivers essentially ) and the low to mid performance at crossover was not great. This would be even more problematic trying to crossover directly from a folded horn bass to a 2445 high driver without some sort of transducer that was a good midrange device. The 3115 crossover is of no use in this scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    If the La Scala horn enclosure is the nostalgia part perhaps ask Google for a vintage Klipsch forum. What is nostalgic about a 16 ohm woofer rather than an 8 ohm though? Certainly you can tune a new, custom designed, out of the lane speaker system with an FFT analysis app like Smaart or REW and a DSP crossover. If you're adamant about using a passive crossover you can use the data gained from the analysis to emulate the characteristics you arrive at in the DSP crossover to design a passive network. It's a helluva lot of work but perfectly doable. Also keep in mind that the La Scala used phenolic diaphragm midrange drivers ( voice horn drivers essentially ) and the low to mid performance at crossover was not great. This would be even more problematic trying to crossover directly from a folded horn bass to a 2445 high driver without some sort of transducer that was a good midrange device. The 3115 crossover is of no use in this scenario.
    Thanks a lot for your answer (Im learning)

    ok, then no folded horn bass

    another compression or sealed type or needs to be reflex ?

    I already found the plans for ev tl505
    http://www.realoldiesradio.com/docs/...oice_TL505.pdf

    thanks

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