Veneering over veneer options (with considerations)

[booja]

I have a pair of JBL 4312A's that I bought recently. I committed fairly early on to re-veneering them because there were a few really poor repairs to corners that had obviously been damaged. We're talking colored wood wax covering bondo seeping through damaged and re-glued veneer. These poor repairs hid some softened MDF that needed to be removed.

I have spent a week or so removing the bad material, replacing it with wood epoxy, and getting sharp and solid corners back. They're pretty much ready for veneer now, but I have a few things I need to decide.

I decided to not try to completely remove the old veneer because of advice I read on this site (but in 10+ year old threads). People had said removing old veneer from MDF cabinets is a huge can of worms and basically results in a loss of will to live. I can see this being the case -- even with tens of hours with a heat gun, a good scraper and the patience of a saint, you're left with rough MDF coated in glue. Trying to sand off the glue gums up the paper, and you end up wondering if you should just burn the cabinets. Finally, I am fairly convinced that the original veneer is adhered well.

I am going to be veneering with new paper-backed veneer, probably teak. I don't mind the original American walnut, but it's hard to find new veneer that isn't a lot darker than the original stuff (that probably came from older trees). And I really like teak.

ACTUAL QUESTION(S) BELOW:

So the question is, which method of veneering is most appropriate for veneering over the top of old veneer? I am tempted by the method I've read about here (and elsewhere) involving multiple coats of Titebond II on the veneer and cabinet, letting it dry, then fixing it by re-activating the glue with an iron. A lot of people have had great success with this method, and there are even some decent YT videos showing the method.

The nagging issue is the risk that applying heat to activate the glue may end up softening the old glue holding the original veneer. For this reason some people have recommend contact cement or a 'cold press' method (e.g. same glue but applying veneer while glue is still wet and clamping).

The problem with a cold press method for me is I currently live in an apartment in Spain. It would cost a lot and take a lot of space to buy 4 or more F-clamps large enough to clamp the veneer down properly. And as far as contact cement is concerned, it sounds like a decent idea except that people have mentioned that it may not be great long term since it never truly hardens, and is susceptible to high humidity (I live in a humid city next to the Mediterranean).

So, for those that have veneered over veneer, what method(s) have you used? What worked and what didn't? What would you recommend given the constraints of 1) small apartment, and 2) not wanting to buy a bunch of expensive tools for one time use?

Thanks in advance.

[tjm001]

I don't know of anybody that knows more about applying veneer than these people: https://www.oakwoodveneer.com/

[macaroonie]

The Titebond method works really well , the key thing is not to overheat.
You only need a quick heat to activate the Titebond. If you overheat you then leave excess heat in the background material wqhich will likely cause bubling in your new veneer as the Titebond does not set as quickly as it needs to.
Practice on the bottom of your speakers. You don't have to linger long with the iron but you just need to get a feel for it.
I did a pair of 4312's this way and had no trouble at all even on the narrow front edges.

[booja]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I've got almost all the equipment to do @saeman's method so I think I'll go for it. Worst case I'll have to start over but it will be a good learning experience either way.

I think I'm going to have to find something to practice on. I thought about doing the bottom first, but then I read some advice about doing it last so that the sides and front strips would be less likely to 'catch' on things if or when the speakers are slid around. I might put some sort of minimal feet on them to protect the bottom corners/edges, and in that case it would be less important.

[Mr. Widget]

I think I'm going to have to find something to practice on.

An excellent idea. There are several types of veneer that may be available to you in your area. The simplest to apply are sheets of veneer that are glued up in larger rolled panels. These can be wood veneer that is glued to a crossbanded veneer layer or veneer that is glued to heavy paper or melamine. All of these work slightly differently, but they are the easiest to apply.

True plain veneer sold in stacks or by the flitch will give you thicker veneer to work with, but unless your species comes in very wide pieces, you will need to joint one or more pieces which can be tricky. Also this type of veneer is just plain harder to work with if this is a first or second go.

Lastly, to do the job right, you should lay up a crossband layer first and then place your finish layer. You can use poplar or any stable inexpensive veneer and glue it up perpendicular to the grain that is on there now, then lay down your top coat in the correct direction. This will give you the best results.


Widget

[booja]

My plan was to use paper backed veneer, maybe Decoflex (https://www.decospan.com/en/wood-sol...nels/decoflex/). I haven't bought any yet, but I came across a few threads that called it out. I found some veneer from UK sellers on the auction site that are interesting, but its not easy to get a sense of product quality from feedback ratings.

Ordering from somewhere in the EU would be simplest and fastest (no customs inspections, import fees, etc.) and I can do that with Decoflex for example. I may even be able to find something locally, but I live in the city center without a car, and the veneer/hardwood retailers seem to be out on the edges of the city.

[Odd]

I have previously purchased from Veneers Online Ltd
They have good service and good products.

[booja]

I have previously purchased from Veneers Online Ltd
They have good service and good products.

Hmm. The max width appears to be 300mm which is only 2 mm shy of the the actual depth, so not a lot of wiggle room.

They seem to have a very limited stock. For unglued, backed veneer, they only have white oak(?)

I wonder if they're having a stock shortage due to Brexit?

[macaroonie]

My plan was to use paper backed veneer, maybe Decoflex (https://www.decospan.com/en/wood-sol...nels/decoflex/). I haven't bought any yet, but I came across a few threads that called it out. I found some veneer from UK sellers on the auction site that are interesting, but its not easy to get a sense of product quality from feedback ratings.

Ordering from somewhere in the EU would be simplest and fastest (no customs inspections, import fees, etc.) and I can do that with Decoflex for example. I may even be able to find something locally, but I live in the city center without a car, and the veneer/hardwood retailers seem to be out on the edges of the city.

In Spain you should easily be able to get Olivewood veneer os Spanish Oak as they are local woods. IMO Olive is lovely , rich in colour and figure.
One small tip I forgot to add is to have a little pusher down tool.
This could be a piece of wood say 200mm x 18mm x 50mm , the 50 mm edge should be eased or rounded off slightll in order that any non stuck areas can be pushed level if they bubble up a bit due to over heating , you just keep rubbing the tool along the grain till it cools down and sticks.
This applies to Titebond and also to traditional hide glues.

There is a professional tool called a veneer hammer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kunz-Vene...EAAOSw1tNbvIVz

read the description , it's not used as a hammer , funny name.

As Mr Widget posted practice your temperature andd ironing on some scrap ply or mdf first. You will be surprised once you get going how easy it is. There is a pandoras box of beautiful veneers that are not used by manufacturers. You have an opportunity to create someting really beautiful that you will cherish for many years.

Let us know how you get on. M

[booja]

In Spain you should easily be able to get Olivewood veneer os Spanish Oak as they are local woods. IMO Olive is lovely , rich in colour and figure.
One small tip I forgot to add is to have a little pusher down tool.
This could be a piece of wood say 200mm x 18mm x 50mm , the 50 mm edge should be eased or rounded off slightll in order that any non stuck areas can be pushed level if they bubble up a bit due to over heating , you just keep rubbing the tool along the grain till it cools down and sticks.
This applies to Titebond and also to traditional hide glues.

There is a professional tool called a veneer hammer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kunz-Vene...EAAOSw1tNbvIVz

read the description , it's not used as a hammer , funny name.

As Mr Widget posted practice your temperature andd ironing on some scrap ply or mdf first. You will be surprised once you get going how easy it is. There is a pandoras box of beautiful veneers that are not used by manufacturers. You have an opportunity to create someting really beautiful that you will cherish for many years.

Let us know how you get on. M

Thanks for the extra tips.

I had a hard time finding veneer tools within Spain, so I had to look elsewhere. I ended up buying a set of brayers for rolling out the glue, and a two handed veneer roller from amazon.com (US). The two handed roller is designed to apply a lot of pressure, so I think it will be ok. I was tempted by the veneer 'scraper' tool with a nylon 'blade' but I wasn't able to find any without ridiculous shipping.

I'm going to have a whole lot of tools that I may never use again so when I'm done I may put it all in a box and sell it within Spain to someone else trying a similar project. It should save them a lot of time and effort putting together a really specific set of tools/equipment/consumables.

[Odd]

I have used PRE GLUED WOOD VENEER on this job with good results.
JBL S109 Aquarius 4 restaurasjon.

And later the same veneer on my big 43xx monitors.
(Well I had professional help to do the job)

[booja]

My cabinets are 298 mm deep, so 300 mm wide veneer seems too close for comfort. I already have 32 oz of Titebond II sitting here, so I think I'm going to be buying some paper backed teak veneer soon and try the @saeman method.

Cheers guys