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Thread: What Do I Have?? Need Help With Connections.

  1. #16
    Senior Member gmarascortt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Are you certain they used 2235H kits? The VC for the 2235H is 3/4" high. The VC for the LE15A is closer to 1/4". I would think that even an amateur would realize there was a mismatch.

    I would think the greatest likelihood would be that they sold you aftermarket brand X something or other and told you that it was original JBL.


    Widget
    On the back of 1 cone, written in white(paint or chalk) is "C8T2235 39V TO-B 660". The other has "C8T2235 39V TO-B 699". Is this applied by the tech doing the work? Or is it a description put on at JBL factory?
    There is also a generic sticker on 1 that reads: P0273-24530. The other: P0273-24526. Do these #'s mean anything to you? Maybe a cross-reference number for aftermarket?
    Also, "C8T2235 JBL 2235, 2231, 136A, 15" recone kit" is on my receipt.
    JBL:250Ti,18Ti,L77,L96,L112,L36,4412,L80T,Custom3-way
    Altec:604E,1204B,1211A,1231A,920-8B,9849-8B,511Towers

  2. #17
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I have no idea what the different cone markings mean. It does seem logical that the numbers on yours imply factory or aftermarket 2235 cones though.

    Read the thread below. It covers overhung vs. underhung woofers. It is primarily about two other woofers, but it does cover the topic here as well.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...25-Voice-coils


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  3. #18
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    The Sisyphean task of sorting thru the debris field that was my warehouse continues and in the process I turned up my 1985 JBL recone documents binder from my days of trying out my high school Spanish and getting pounding headaches from the solvents with the ladies on the recone line in Northridge. The correct recone kit for the LE15A is called out as the C16R2215. There does not appear to be any cross reference to another cone for the LE15A on the 'goes into list' so that is the only cone specified to fit that driver. "C8T2235 39V TO-B 660" is not the sort of marking I've ever seen on any JBL factory kit. I suspect you have aftermarket cones.

  4. #19
    Senior Member gmarascortt's Avatar
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    Update

    I visited The Speaker Exchange on Monday and spoke with the owner, Glenn Satin, at length. He seemed very perplexed after I explained everything to him. He asked me if I "listened to them"....I said "no". He then said, "how do you know they don't work?" "I don't". He really did not have a lot of answers.
    I asked him if he could test them to prove they work properly. We went in the back and he did some kind of test(sine wave?) for the movement of the cone, but not actual sound. The cone was really moving in and out and seemed to be working very smoothly. He said they were well within the factory specs. With no rubbing.
    I then flat out asked him if they actually used aftermarket kits and then labeled them with JBL 2235H info. He said, "absolutely not!" He then proceeded to go in the storage room and brought out a brand new and sealed 2235H kit. He opened it in front of me and we compared it to my re-coned LE15A. Everything matched EXACTLY, including all of the hand written information from the factory on the back of the cone.....everything elso matched exactly! Glenn then guaranteed that these will work properly, claiming that over the last 25 years, he has used the 2235H kits in the LE15A drivers many hundreds of times........including about 20 pairs per year to Kendrick Sound in Japan. He carries these kits just for Kendrick Sound knowing they will use them in the LE15A rebuilds!

    Where do I stand now?
    (1)He offered to rebuild them using aftermarket kits, and refund the difference. He was adamant that I would not be happy with the sound or the longevity of the cone.
    (2)He asked if I could go home and listen to them, and if I wasn't 100% impressed, he would refund the total amount.

    So today I will rewire and connect everything for audition. I will let you guys know how they sound!
    JBL:250Ti,18Ti,L77,L96,L112,L36,4412,L80T,Custom3-way
    Altec:604E,1204B,1211A,1231A,920-8B,9849-8B,511Towers

  5. #20
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    That is very disheartening to hear.

    Well, I guess it is good news that he has C8R2235H kits, but it is too bad he wasted two more of them on your LE15As. Did you ask him about overhung and underhung voice coils? There is no way in hell a 3/4” high coil will work properly in a LE15A.

    Think of it as changing the piston rods of an engine. An engine needs to have the correct piston rods for the best performance, you can get the engine to run with the wrong rods, but it won’t perform as it was designed.


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  6. #21
    Senior Member gmarascortt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post

    Did you ask him about overhung and underhung voice coils? There is no way in hell a 3/4” high coil will work properly in a LE15

    I sure did!

    I gave him information that I received from Ken Haerr @ Upland Speaker Service: "The LE15A top plate thickness/gap depth is .600", and an underhung voice coil topology. Short coil in a deep gap. The 2235H is .280", overhung design, long coil in a short gap. Basically what is happening with your now incorrect speaker is the voice coil partially immersed in the gap with assymetrical movement" .

    I really caught him off guard and he had no explanation........except "they will work" and "they are within factory specs".
    JBL:250Ti,18Ti,L77,L96,L112,L36,4412,L80T,Custom3-way
    Altec:604E,1204B,1211A,1231A,920-8B,9849-8B,511Towers

  7. #22
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmarascortt View Post
    I really caught him off guard and he had no explanation........except "they will work" and "they are within factory specs".
    They will work, as in make sounds, but he is a liar or a fool if he is claiming that they are within spec. They cannot possibly be within spec.

    I have no problem recommending that people buy parts from this firm, but absolutely no one should allow them to work on their drivers.


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  8. #23
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Could he be confusing the 136A (The woofer from the later L200 and L300 speaker systems) for the LE15A? The 136A should be reconed with the 2235H kit.


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  9. #24
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    My two cents.

    You have every reason to be pissed off.

    However now that its done you need to look forward, and address the problem in a practical and economical way in order to salvage the drivers.

    Since "He offered to rebuild them using aftermarket kits, and refund the difference." i'd be tempted to go this way.

    Seems a correct aftermarket recone should be better than a wrong one and better than none, a lesser of two evils. This should give you a working woofer, maybe not ideal but i assume acceptable.

    If the installation work they did is good (other than wrong recone) they may well do a proper installation job of the aftermarket kit too.

    Going elsewhere to get the job redone would mean paying twice for the same work, a pain in the wallet. And with his offer you'd get some money back, helping you put this sad event behind you, i.e. moving on.

    At least next time you'll know what to do regarding Speaker Exchange...

    P.S. RE "including about 20 pairs per year to Kendrick Sound in Japan. He carries these kits just for Kendrick Sound knowing they will use them in the LE15A rebuilds!" That raises a similar issue/question about their own rebuilds...

  10. #25
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I find it very hard to believe that Kenrick doesn't do their own re-coning at this point.
    But then I assume they're still using Rick in USA for their reproduction cabinets, too, so . . .
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  11. #26
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Could he be confusing the 136A (The woofer from the later L200 and L300 speaker systems) for the LE15A? The 136A should be reconed with the 2235H kit.


    Widget
    Good point. I don't see Kenrick rebuilding a lot of LE15A-based systems.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  12. #27
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Spent some time searching in the deep JBL stuff, trying to make sense of the non-sense, that is find some explanation or connection between LE15A and 2235 recone kit.

    If what i found is in fact the (unconfirmed) explanation for putting the wrong cone kit on LE15A, then it would be a gross misinterpretation of the info by the Exchage and/or Kenrick Sound.

    The only possible connection i could see is the following, not that far fetched in my view.

    I think someone might have used the Transducer replacement list in order to find an "equivalent" driver thinking that its cone kit could be used in absence of a genuine LE15A kit. The transducer list shown here makes me believe this.

    Acoustic equivalent shown (a fast/tempting solution) is 2234, so a 2235 without mass ring as i recall. Don't need to juggle at length with the 2235 recone kit idea, its perceived as a legit quick fix. More so when note # 3 says "Last resort", your back is to the wall, the only JBL you can put on (they think).

    Not trying to justify or defend what was done, but rather simply say where it SEEMS the gaffe may come from.

    Fit the kit on it and that's it! Basically, what you appear to have on your drivers would be a "Kenrick Special"

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  13. #28
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Yes, if you have a missing or completely trashed LE15A, a 2234H would be the best replacement woofer. However as I believe you understand and are saying, using a 2234/5H kit (C8R2235H) to repair a blown LE15A is not even suitable as a last resort.


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  14. #29
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    “DESCRIPTION


    Brand New Genuine JBL C8R2235 Recone Kit to repair the 2231A, 2231H, 2234H, 2235H & 136A speakers. One piece pre-assembled Recone Kit includes: 4″ flat wound voice coil, ribbed cone with foam surround, spider, tinsel leads, gaskets, glue, mass ring included, centering shim and dustcap. 2234H used in 4435 monitor. 2235H used in JBL 136H, L45A, L45B, L71, L300A, B380.”


    The quote above is from The Speaker Exchange’s website. It correctly does not mention the LE15A. This whole LE15A/2235H snafu just doesn’t make sense.


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  15. #30
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Agreed. But THEY (Exchange/Kenrick) seem to believe that it is a valid kit!!! I was only trying to show where the gaffe may come from, no more.

    BTW LHF VERY slow today, some IT attacks or something? Or too many lonely folks on the Web...

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