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Thread: Are Charge Coupled crossovers Snake Oil ?

  1. #1
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    Are Charge Coupled crossovers Snake Oil ?

    Is this based on the belief that AC capacitors have crossover/notch distortion when the current/voltage crosses zero like a bad class B amplifier? Or am I missing something? If so, how can I set up a experiment using a single generator a capacitor and a scope to test this hypothesis?
    Gary

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Lol. Quite the leading question... snake oil, belief, bad amplifier, simple proof. Showing your Paul Klipsch "No Bullshit!" badge Good for you.

    If your scope can measure IM distortion, perhaps you can demonstrate some empirical evidence of the circuit having an effect on the signal to yourself
    (vs building up a pair of networks and having a listen)... both are not unreasonable comparisons, the former being a bit more objective. I agree it would be nice to have a specific set of measurements to point at to explain all aspects of audio, but I'm not holding my breath, so learn where I can and listen when I have the opportunity.

    Keep in mind, one persons day-and-night is another's meh.

    I'm assuming you've found Mr. Timbers comments regarding his experience in experimenting, trying to associate the technique with measurements, and implementation of the circuit into product... it's googleable.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Here we go again. Take a simple 2 way and spring for the extra caps. Have a listen and decide for yourself.

    Rob

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    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    I really really don't get it. Are you saying its IM distortion and I can't measure it. In audio your mind can play tricks on you. Did you ever make an adjustment on a EQ and say to yourself that's better, only to find out the EQ was in bypass? Maybe its like religion you know there is a God but you just can't prove it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hysteresis View Post
    I really really don't get it. Are you saying its IM distortion and I can't measure it. In audio your mind can play tricks on you. Did you ever make an adjustment on a EQ and say to yourself that's better, only to find out the EQ was in bypass? Maybe its like religion you know there is a God but you just can't prove it?
    Just save yourself the trouble and forget they even exist - simple!

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    Good advise JeffW. Your a smart man!

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    As you can imagine, we have more than a few folks pop in from time to time to question the validity of the charge coupled crossover. Most have no intention of ever building one, but it drives them (and others) nuts trying to wrap their head around it.

    I'll never build one - and nobody is compelling me to either use one or pay for one, so as far as I'm concerned they are inconsequential. I lose not a moments sleep at night contemplating their validity.

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Tried to play nice. Done here.

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    Member ompdiburi's Avatar
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    I don't know if it really works, but, looking at the schematics, I never understand why this technique is applied not only at the capacitors in series with signal, but also to those in parallel. Any ideas about ?

    Giuliano

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    I don't understand it myself, that's why I started this thread. BUT I have a better idea. Instead of charge coupled caps, use current biased inductors! In some crossovers the low pass coils have iron cores. I can see how a iron core in a inductor could add distortion. Iron does not like to be magnetized back and forth in linear fashion. If you could bias the coil into the linear area of the hysteresis curve maybe this would help. That's why tape recorders use AC bias. Or just use a active xover !

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    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    I built a charge coupled version of Steve Schell's crossover for the 3-way Cogent system. I can say definitively that it has not degraded the sound in the least, and in fact tend to sound more transparent when I've changed the batteries after some period of listening and not thinking about them...
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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I haven’t built any CC’d networks myself, but in my pair of JBL built DD66000 after several years of enjoying them, I found them to be less detailed and grainy... I wondered if it was my expectations or something else was going on and then I remembered the batteries. I checked and they were several years past their expiration date. I bought four new batteries and after a few minutes they were back making beautiful music.


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