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Thread: Is there a better driver than the 2416 for the 2342 horn?

  1. #16
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    ....I don't think I am alone with this as here in my neck of the woods in NY many DJ's build custom cabs with both larger horns and bullet tweeters.
    There may be a clue right there. Is this the sound you like or are after?

    Very high frequency does not travel far before it gets absorbed by air so systems like you describe use bullet tweeters that have very narrow dispersion patterns to get the “sizzle” out to the audience.

    If this is what you are after them I believe that you will want super tweeter like the 2404 above your big horn.

    Do you have any signal shaping / EQ applied to your big horn? Virtually none of them (horns or drivers) are inherently flat in frequency response and if you don’t have some signal shaping applied it will very likely be loud in the midrange and soft on the highs.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  2. #17
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Do you have the 22A or 22T compression driver on your horns? Do you have the passive crossovers that Peavy used for these systems?

    I found the spec sheet for the mark three system but wonder what all you have.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    There may be a clue right there. Is this the sound you like or are after?

    Very high frequency does not travel far before it gets absorbed by air so systems like you describe use bullet tweeters that have very narrow dispersion patterns to get the “sizzle” out to the audience.

    If this is what you are after them I believe that you will want super tweeter like the 2404 above your big horn.

    Do you have any signal shaping / EQ applied to your big horn? Virtually none of them (horns or drivers) are inherently flat in frequency response and if you don’t have some signal shaping applied it will very likely be loud in the midrange and soft on the highs.

    Barry.
    Correct on all points Barry. My mistake was thinking that the 2342 horn would give the same highs of the 2404 and just more of it, that's the gist of it. Yesterday when I added the ST304 tweeter on top of the horn it works well just I have to control it's volume as it diminishes the bass according to my ears.

    BTW, is Selenium brand JBL?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Do you have the 22A or 22T compression driver on your horns? Do you have the passive crossovers that Peavy used for these systems?

    I found the spec sheet for the mark three system but wonder what all you have.

    Barry.
    Correct again. When I got the horns the internal crossovers was damage so I had to run them directly to a receiver. Also, since I already had the d220ti's sitting on a shelf I decided to use them thinking it would be better and more updated anyway than the original driver.

    It's only now I am realizing that I am using a driver which was not intended for those horns. I could purchase a pair of the 22A but since I now know that even those will not give me the highs of the ST304 or any super tweeter then would not make sense.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    Correct again. When I got the horns the internal crossovers was damage so I had to run them directly to a receiver. Also, since I already had the d220ti's sitting on a shelf I decided to use them thinking it would be better and more updated anyway than the original driver.

    It's only now I am realizing that I am using a driver which was not intended for those horns. I could purchase a pair of the 22A but since I now know that even those will not give me the highs of the ST304 or any super tweeter then would not make sense.
    You need a crossover, those little compression drivers and tweeters are not meant to be ran full range. The reason (part of it) that you aren't getting crisp highs is because your compression driver is being fed low frequency material it was never designed to play. Swapping drivers without a crossover isn't going to get you where you want to go.

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    I have the receiver running through the DBX Eq, what I will do is run it through the BSS Processor too to see if that makes a difference but I will need to wait until my Sound guy who had setup the BSS can drop by to do it, get back to you whenever he does, thanks..

  7. #22
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    Ah, that's different - you do have a crossover.

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    Yeah but I had thought that just EQing the horns would have been enough or the same thing.

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    Yes, seems I had made 2 mistakes, first, I using other drivers instead of the original 22a and also not running them horns through my crossover. Luckily I spoke to a friend yesterday who has the 22a who is going to send one to me in the next week or two.


    When received I will set the crossover to the recommended points and run a side by side comparison with the current JBL and the 22a and will report back, thx guys.

  10. #25
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    30” X 16” That looks like a big nice horn. 64 questions:

    Are you using them at home?

    What BSS unit do you have?

    What speaker compliment is under these horns? Like 15’s and subs or?

    How tall is the vertical gap at it’s smallest point in the horn? I can’t find a picture that shows well enough to gage by. Looking at the polar response measurement Peavy shows and the pictures I can find I can’t guess.

    As you have likely figured out, JBL made three different super tweeters with their ring radiator motor, the 075 / 2402 bullets have a 40 degree conical dispersion, they are spot lights for sound and in sound reinforcement they are used in arrays to horizontally spread the sound.

    The 077 / 2405 has a different phase plug and diffraction wings added to make its dispersion pattern 40 degrees vertical and about 120-140 degrees horizontal. This most closely matches your horns dispersion patter and IMO would be great used singularly in a home environment with a horn like yours.

    The 2404 has a 100 X 100 degree dispersion pattern. In some environments this can be good but in a home listening environment it will put sound energy on the ceiling and floor and may or may not be how you like to hear.

    I forget the part number but Peavy made a near copy of the JBL 2404, if you want to keep it all in the Peavy family.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  11. #26
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    Nice if you need pattern control in the horizontal plane at 500hz. Pretty good knock off of a JBL 2350 but not something I'd want to be listening from any closer than 50ft . What is the appeal these days of lumping old, crude technology in with old, still good tech? Altec sectoral horns in living room stereos for instance.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    30” X 16” That looks like a big nice horn...

    Barry.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    30” X 16” That looks like a big nice horn. 64 questions:

    Are you using them at home?

    What BSS unit do you have?

    What speaker compliment is under these horns? Like 15’s and subs or?

    How tall is the vertical gap at it’s smallest point in the horn? I can’t find a picture that shows well enough to gage by. Looking at the polar response measurement Peavy shows and the pictures I can find I can’t guess.

    As you have likely figured out, JBL made three different super tweeters with their ring radiator motor, the 075 / 2402 bullets have a 40 degree conical dispersion, they are spot lights for sound and in sound reinforcement they are used in arrays to horizontally spread the sound.

    The 077 / 2405 has a different phase plug and diffraction wings added to make its dispersion pattern 40 degrees vertical and about 120-140 degrees horizontal. This most closely matches your horns dispersion patter and IMO would be great used singularly in a home environment with a horn like yours.

    The 2404 has a 100 X 100 degree dispersion pattern. In some environments this can be good but in a home listening environment it will put sound energy on the ceiling and floor and may or may not be how you like to hear.

    I forget the part number but Peavy made a near copy of the JBL 2404, if you want to keep it all in the Peavy family.

    Barry.
    I wish I could have gotten my hands on a 4425 but that I am seeing is being sold for 2k, what the heck does it have in it?

    No worries at all on the questions, I welcome them.

    Yes using them at home in a one car garage. BSS FDS388. Under the horns:

    https://av.loyola.com/products/audio...minator-i.html

    and under that EAW SB1000.

    Not sure what you mean by "Vertical Gap"? I can take a pic tomorrow of the front of the horn up close, will that work?

    @Riley.
    Yeah, that's what I have been told by some guys, that the horns are way too big for that small space [20'L x 10'W x 8'H]. This is why I am looking at maybe only one 2342 horn as a workable replacement or some adequate sized horn for my space which driver/horn combo can give as close to highs like a super tweeter.

  13. #28
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    Based on the description of the EV speaker you're using as the core of your garage speaker system you have a pretty good horn already in the HP64. The HF driver looks to be pretty low budget and the listed crossover frequency is too high for a 15. You might do well to look for a pair of EV DH1 drivers that are used on that horn in the very good sounding EV Deltamax and move the crossover down to the Deltamax settings ( 1khz low pass on the 15 and 1152hz high pass on the DH1 driver). The BSS 388 gives you lots of options for tuning that combo to your hearts content. Add a cheap knock off super tweeter like an Eminence ( https://www.eminence.com/speakers/su...?model=BGH25_8 ) or similar and you could be in range of your goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post

  14. #29
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    Thanks. the ST304 tweeter I tried couple days ago gives as good highs as any average super tweeter I am thinking so would be no need to buy any other. It's the horn situation is the issue. If after trying the original 22A on the Peavey horns with crossover tuning doesn't give me good enough highs to run the horn alone then I can look into trying that EV driver on the EV horn

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Nice if you need pattern control in the horizontal plane at 500hz. Pretty good knock off of a JBL 2350 but not something I'd want to be listening from any closer than 50ft . What is the appeal these days of lumping old, crude technology in with old, still good tech? Altec sectoral horns in living room stereos for instance.
    Hi Riley;

    Until a post or two after the one you quoted me here, I didn’t know if he was in the great outdoors or in a closet.

    I haven’t heard the horn newbie has but if he is looking for a big “DJ system” presentation like he said, he is in big horn large format driver territory I think. Also 90X40’s are generally my indoor favorites. His doesn't have a large format driver but my definition of loud is different that most here so for him that may be OK.

    I certainly agree that there are a lot of big old horns that just don’t sound good, especially by todays standards and 2350’s fit that category in my book.

    If I looked up the right Peavy horn, it doesn't look much like a 2350 to me.

    It will be interesting to see where he lands.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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