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Thread: Full range speaker to 20Hz?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Steve,

    RE This is off topic but do you have TS data for the 2205H? (post #52)

    First pic is a copy, with TS parameters, of a 2205 computer printout given to me in 1980 by JBL's Canadian distributor. I don't use the driver in the 5.5 CF box indicated since its too large for this older SR woofer (not intended for subwoofer use). This old one uses imperial measures.

    Second pic is the TS for 2205H from JBL's own TS Table. That one gives Metric measures.

    The main discrepancy between the two sets of TS is on Xmax when converted to the same units.

    Richard

    Attachment 87821Attachment 87822
    Richard,
    When I saw your 2 images it reminded me that I have a similar one from Harmon but mine is a PDF from 2008. I could have found the TS data in my copy so I apologize for forgetting that I had that. I am always happy to expand the number of drivers that I have loaded into my design software. It helps me in the design efforts of future projects.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Steve,

    RE Does the "Plasiflex" cone basically look like plastic? (post #51)

    Hard to say if its plastic or a coating applied to the woofer for damping/rigidity? Its relatively stiff cone though.

    The XO from woofer to 19 mm tweeter is at 4.5 khz. The fun with these small near field is that they're optimized for flat power response (off axis) instead of the usual on-axis. Mfr even says not to toe them in but rather let them fire straight out. The effect is quite interesting from such small size.

    Richard

    Attachment 87820
    Hi Richard,
    Yes that woofer cone looks very unique. I don't believe I have seen that style before. I like the 5" 2 way designs because when used together with a 12" (or 15") woofer it becomes similar to a 3 way system. A lot of 3 ways use 5" midranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clwinbe View Post
    I’ve read a review of the L100T (seemed very detailed) that stated it was remarkably flat 20Hz-20KHz +-3.5db. Your space has more to do with low end, but it was an interesting review.
    Yes I saw maybe a similar review on the L100T. I did not see a response curve (anechoic) on that but it is probably - 10db at 20Hz. I built a speaker last summer that achieved my design goals but it was 8 cu ft. My next goal is to accomplish it in a 3 cu ft box with lower sensitivity.

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    Steve,
    you asked if I a full range speaker sitting on top of my Vlf. Yes. My main speakers are 4410's

    Ed
    KEEP ON LISTENING!

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    My goal is +/- 1.5db 20Hz to 20Khz. Because it is more difficult to engineer, I like the challenge. From an educational standpoint, I learn more (I hope).
    Hello Steve

    Hope you can measure outside. Above 1K in-room not a issue but trying to get down below 500Hz get's really difficult because if you gate you loose resolution. When I go low I don't gate but you see the room as well so it's a crap shoot. Bottom line though is if you can get repeatability even with the room you can at least get a handle on things.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    Hope you can measure outside. Above 1K in-room not a issue but trying to get down below 500Hz get's really difficult because if you gate you loose resolution. When I go low I don't gate but you see the room as well so it's a crap shoot. Bottom line though is if you can get repeatability even with the room you can at least get a handle on things.

    Rob
    Hi Rob,
    Thank you for that suggestion. Don't forget that I live in western Oregon where it rains everyday in the winter time LOL. Yes I understand the limitations of the gated measurements. Typically my indoor measurements are just above 1 Khz for measuring tweeter response or adjusting the X-O between the mid and tweeter. I am using a Linear X LMS for all my measurements. Anything below 1Khz I go outside at least 60 ft away from any buildings etc and take GP (ground plane) measurements.

    I would be happy to post some curves but I am having trouble posting images on this forum. I don’t have any problem on other forums but for some reason this one seems different. I am just a newbie . I followed the instructions in FAQ section “attachments and images” but still having issues. I will try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C 2020 View Post
    Hi Rob,
    Thank you for that suggestion. Don't forget that I live in western Oregon where it rains everyday in the winter time LOL. Yes I understand the limitations of the gated measurements. Typically my indoor measurements are just above 1 Khz for measuring tweeter response or adjusting the X-O between the mid and tweeter. I am using a Linear X LMS for all my measurements. Anything below 1Khz I go outside at least 60 ft away from any buildings etc and take GP (ground plane) measurements.

    I would be happy to post some curves but I am having trouble posting images on this forum. I don’t have any problem on other forums but for some reason this one seems different. I am just a newbie . I followed the instructions in FAQ section “attachments and images” but still having issues. I will try again.

    Name:  Respons curve 20.jpg
Views: 470
Size:  87.5 KB

    This is GP measurement at 2m. My problem is that I want to create a speaker with similar curve in a smaller box (hopefully 3 cu ft). The speaker shown in the measurement is 9 cu ft. My target sensitivity for the smaller speaker is 84db.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Steve,
    you asked if I a full range speaker sitting on top of my Vlf. Yes. My main speakers are 4410's

    Ed
    Hi Ed,
    It sound like you have a solid 4 way system. The 10" woofers in the 4410s can easily go down to 60Hz and your larger woofer / subwoofer can probably go much lower. That must make a nice balance. Maybe my thinking is similar to yours because I never understood the need for a monitor to have a big 12" or 15" woofer if we are going to use a sub. It never made sense to me.
    Steve

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    I can think of a couple reasons.How big is the room? How loud do you want to play? Also consider that a 15 " speaker has about 130 square inches of radiating area, vs. 50 for a 10. So a 15 only has to move about 1/3 the distance to make the same amount of sound. Most likely then lower distortion. Over simplification maybe but you catch my drift.
    There is also this, a bigger speaker (for the most part) simply sounds better.

    For me in the size of room I have (13x16x8), a 10 works very well even for a full orchestral tutti. But for full organ pedals or depth charge explosions, a couple of vintage 15's work quite nicely. Oh yes I also run the low bass units in mono.
    I actually get better low bass doing so.

    As an addendum;I'm sure you know this but in the days of the LP record, the bass under 100 Hz was mixed in mono. It saved a lot of space on the disc, and could produce more bass. I wonder if the newer vinyl discs are done this way?

    Ed
    KEEP ON LISTENING!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    I can think of a couple reasons.How big is the room? How loud do you want to play? Also consider that a 15 " speaker has about 130 square inches of radiating area, vs. 50 for a 10. So a 15 only has to move about 1/3 the distance to make the same amount of sound. Most likely then lower distortion. Over simplification maybe but you catch my drift.
    There is also this, a bigger speaker (for the most part) simply sounds better.

    For me in the size of room I have (13x16x8), a 10 works very well even for a full orchestral tutti. But for full organ pedals or depth charge explosions, a couple of vintage 15's work quite nicely. Oh yes I also run the low bass units in mono.
    I actually get better low bass doing so.

    As an addendum;I'm sure you know this but in the days of the LP record, the bass under 100 Hz was mixed in mono. It saved a lot of space on the disc, and could produce more bass. I wonder if the newer vinyl discs are done this way?

    Ed
    That is interesting. I didn't know that about the mono bass on the records. I grew up in the 60s so I am familiar with them. I also own an old McIntosh tube amp. I enjoy all of it.

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