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Thread: Full range speaker to 20Hz?

  1. #31
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C 2020 View Post
    Was LEAP made by LinearX or different company?
    LinearX.

    Mine runs fine on 32 bit Win7 last I used it.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  2. #32
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Steve

    I built a pair of sort of M2's. They are passive using 2216Nd and 476Mg on the M2 waveguide. I have the 2216Nds in 4.7Cu Ft. low tuned to 26Hz. That gives them an F3 @ 47Hz and the typical banana curve. To extend the F3 they were designed to use a Q2 6Db bump filter that extends the F3 to 25Hz. That is the typical bump filter and tuning JBL has used in the BX-63/63A for the B380,B460 and on the 2242 in a cinema box.

    I can adjust the notch filter from 0 to +6 in 1Db increment's. I have 2 switchable settings I can switch out 1@ +6 and one @ +4 I typically use the +6Db setting. I get pressurization all the way down to 20Hz where the sweep ends.

    Even though you would think you would have issues with the F3 @ 25Hz it simply not a problem in my room.

    Put on some Sinatra or 60's vintage and for the most part F3 @ 47Hz works just fine. However put on some modern Indie or something that actually has content down there and the bump filter really helps fill in and solidify the foundation of the music.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  3. #33
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Mine runs fine on 32 bit Win7 last I used it.

    Barry
    Hello Barry

    Do you have a Windows 7 drivers to install the Key Dongle??

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    I built a pair of sort of M2's. They are passive using 2216Nd and 476Mg on the M2 waveguide. I have the 2216Nds in 4.7Cu Ft. low tuned to 26Hz. That gives them an F3 @ 47Hz and the typical banana curve. To extend the F3 they were designed to use a Q2 6Db bump filter that extends the F3 to 25Hz. That is the typical bump filter and tuning JBL has used in the BX-63/63A for the B380,B460 and on the 2242 in a cinema box.

    I can adjust the notch filter from 0 to +6 in 1Db increment's. I have 2 switchable settings I can switch out 1@ +6 and one @ +4 I typically use the +6Db setting. I get pressurization all the way down to 20Hz where the sweep ends.

    Even though you would think you would have issues with the F3 @ 25Hz it simply not a problem in my room.

    Put on some Sinatra or 60's vintage and for the most part F3 @ 47Hz works just fine. However put on some modern Indie or something that actually has content down there and the bump filter really helps fill in and solidify the foundation of the music.

    Rob
    Nice !! The 2216Nd and the 1500AL-1 are definitely some of my favorite woofers. The 2216Nd in 14 cu ft tuned to 23Hz it will model -3db @ 23Hz But I know that is not taking into account BD (baffle diffraction). With a small amount of weight added to the cone it will model + - 0.5db 20Hz to 1Khz at 93db sensitivity. It is such a beautiful curve to look at (for me).

  5. #35
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Barry

    Do you have a Windows 7 drivers to install the Key Dongle??

    Rob
    Hi Rob!

    Before I tell a lie and say yes, I had better slide the old hard drive back in and make sure that my memory isn’t lying to me. Will do it tonight.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    I built a pair of sort of M2's. They are passive using 2216Nd and 476Mg on the M2 waveguide. I have the 2216Nds in 4.7Cu Ft. low tuned to 26Hz. That gives them an F3 @ 47Hz and the typical banana curve. To extend the F3 they were designed to use a Q2 6Db bump filter that extends the F3 to 25Hz. That is the typical bump filter and tuning JBL has used in the BX-63/63A for the B380,B460 and on the 2242 in a cinema box.

    I can adjust the notch filter from 0 to +6 in 1Db increment's. I have 2 switchable settings I can switch out 1@ +6 and one @ +4 I typically use the +6Db setting. I get pressurization all the way down to 20Hz where the sweep ends.

    Even though you would think you would have issues with the F3 @ 25Hz it simply not a problem in my room.

    Put on some Sinatra or 60's vintage and for the most part F3 @ 47Hz works just fine. However put on some modern Indie or something that actually has content down there and the bump filter really helps fill in and solidify the foundation of the music.

    Rob
    Are you using a passive crossover or active crossover in a biamped setup?

  7. #37
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Steve

    It's passive design not biamp like the M2 Crossover is @ 700Hz Really enjoy them! Awesome drivers!

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  8. #38
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Thank Barry!

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    It's passive design not biamp like the M2 Crossover is @ 700Hz Really enjoy them! Awesome drivers!

    Rob
    Do you think that the 476 sounds as good as the Beryllium drivers used in the Everest DD67000?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    It's passive design not biamp like the M2 Crossover is @ 700Hz Really enjoy them! Awesome drivers!

    Rob
    Very Nice !!
    I don't know why I appreciate passive systems more than active (biamped) systems even though the active systems could arguably sound better. Maybe I am attracted to the simplicity of it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Steve

    I built a pair of sort of M2's. They are passive using 2216Nd and 476Mg on the M2 waveguide. I have the 2216Nds in 4.7Cu Ft. low tuned to 26Hz. That gives them an F3 @ 47Hz and the typical banana curve. To extend the F3 they were designed to use a Q2 6Db bump filter that extends the F3 to 25Hz. That is the typical bump filter and tuning JBL has used in the BX-63/63A for the B380,B460 and on the 2242 in a cinema box.

    I can adjust the notch filter from 0 to +6 in 1Db increment's. I have 2 switchable settings I can switch out 1@ +6 and one @ +4 I typically use the +6Db setting. I get pressurization all the way down to 20Hz where the sweep ends.

    Even though you would think you would have issues with the F3 @ 25Hz it simply not a problem in my room.

    Put on some Sinatra or 60's vintage and for the most part F3 @ 47Hz works just fine. However put on some modern Indie or something that actually has content down there and the bump filter really helps fill in and solidify the foundation of the music.

    Rob
    Is the 6Db bump filter an active filter? It sounds like an an active EQ to extend the low freq response of the system. I apologize because I don't remember well the design of the BX-63/63A. I became familiar with JBL products around 1990 but mostly sound reinforcement products at that time.

  12. #42
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Thank Barry!

    Rob
    Damn I lied. This hard drive is on XP.

    So sorry!

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  13. #43
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,

    RE "Have you designed any passive full range systems with extended bass?" (post # 27)

    I design my own boxes and have never cloned other people's or manufacturer's design.

    I do mostly bass cabs with satellite systems, biamped, as i find these way more flexible and space efficient being one on top of others. Have different pairs of bass cabs and can put 2 various size satellites on top of each bass cab, so a number of satellites can be readily available, plus have more in stock to put in the speaker rotation.

    The "foundation" (i.e. bass cabs) remains stable (though bought other woofers recently and have another pair in sight), while the satellites used may vary a lot. Quite easy to switch smaller boxes, and the use of banana plugs. Considering the bandwidths involved, say few hundred hertz or so on the active xo, there's way more spectrum covered by the satellites than on the bass cabs, and i think that globally it makes a larger difference sound wise when switching between tops vs bottoms.

    Note that i mentioned bass cabs, not subwoofers. Proper subwoofing is too penalizing for me size wise with the space i have. Plus i don't need 20hz bass, nor rattling the neighborhood, to be happy in life. I get along pretty well with 40 or 45 hz bass which allows more reasonable LF box sizes.

    Having hi-fi type speakers as well as some sound reinforcement boxes, that suits me fine as i like to try different things and various LF/MF-HF combinations, which LF cabs/satellites biamping permits almost endlessly. Regards,

    Richard

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi Steve,

    RE "Have you designed any passive full range systems with extended bass?" (post # 27)

    I design my own boxes and have never cloned other people's or manufacturer's design.

    I do mostly bass cabs with satellite systems, biamped, as i find these way more flexible and space efficient being one on top of others. Have different pairs of bass cabs and can put 2 various size satellites on top of each bass cab, so a number of satellites can be readily available, plus have more in stock to put in the speaker rotation.

    The "foundation" (i.e. bass cabs) remains stable (though bought other woofers recently and have another pair in sight), while the satellites used may vary a lot. Quite easy to switch smaller boxes, and the use of banana plugs. Considering the bandwidths involved, say few hundred hertz or so on the active xo, there's way more spectrum covered by the satellites than on the bass cabs, and i think that globally it makes a larger difference sound wise when switching between tops vs bottoms.

    Note that i mentioned bass cabs, not subwoofers. Proper subwoofing is too penalizing for me size wise with the space i have. Plus i don't need 20hz bass, nor rattling the neighborhood, to be happy in life. I get along pretty well with 40 or 45 hz bass which allows more reasonable LF box sizes.

    Having hi-fi type speakers as well as some sound reinforcement boxes, that suits me fine as i like to try different things and various LF/MF-HF combinations, which LF cabs/satellites biamping permits almost endlessly. Regards,

    Richard
    It is interesting because I have been an audio enthusiast for many years but just recently joined a couple of audio related forums. It is nice to talk to other people with similar interests.

    Yes I agree with your concept of what I call MES (multi enclosure system). When you build a speaker system (or prototype) with drivers in different boxes then you have more flexibility and also by moving the satellite speaker forward or backward you can time-align them. I think the time aligning is more common between the tweeter and midrange so my next project I will put them in separate boxes.

    It sounds like in your systems; the satellite is acting like the tweeter and mid. And the LF (low frequency) cabinet is acting like the woofer (not subwoofer). It sounds like you have the crossover at around 200Hz.

    If you don't mind me asking, what size midrange / mid-bass driver do you typically use in your satellites? Do you use mostly tweeters or horns in your satellites?

    Steve

  15. #45
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,

    No horns, except for some horn tweeters on the sound reinforcement boxes

    XO frequency to the satellites typically around 250-300hz

    Satellite boxes often house a 5 1/4" plus a dome tweeter for hi-fi cabs, and a 6" plus a dome in a horn tweeter for sound reinforcement satellites

    But there are exceptions to the above, since i have some larger satellite boxes, like an SR pair having a 10" with a special cone and a dome in a horn tweeter, with the latter being able to be crossed over as low as 1500hz with a steep slope since it has an Fs of 750hz (pretty low for a 1" dome). Regards,

    Richard

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