Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 70

Thread: Full range speaker to 20Hz?

  1. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi Steve,

    No horns, except for some horn tweeters on the sound reinforcement boxes

    XO frequency to the satellites typically around 250-300hz

    Satellite boxes often house a 5 1/4" plus a dome tweeter for hi-fi cabs, and a 6" plus a dome in a horn tweeter for sound reinforcement satellites

    But there are exceptions to the above, since i have some larger satellite boxes, like an SR pair having a 10" with a special cone and a dome in a horn tweeter, with the latter being able to be crossed over as low as 1500hz with a steep slope since it has an Fs of 750hz (pretty low for a 1" dome). Regards,

    Richard
    Hi Richard,
    That sounds like a solid design. I also am generally using 1Ē soft dome tweeters (direct radiating). The maximum size mid-range that I use is 6.5Ē. It seems to sound best if the mid-range is capable of generating frequencies that extend 1 octave beyond (past) X-O frequency (for all drivers). Some companies use plastic cone mid-range / mid-bass drivers but to me they donít sound articulated (lacking in upper mid-range transients). Maybe other people donít agree but that is my personal experience. I use traditional paper pulp mids.

    My audio passion recently is designing full range towers that measure (relatively flat) from 20Hz to 20Khz. Most people donít see the need to go below 40Hz but when I listened to speakers that extended approximately to 20Hz, I realized that it is an experience that I appreciate.

  2. #47
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,617
    All this talk reminds me of these systems from the 80's... No recollection of how they were measured.

    https://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...mps/index.html

    https://www.highendnews.info/reviews...ereign-eng.htm

  3. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    All this talk reminds me of these systems from the 80's... No recollection of how they were measured.

    https://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...mps/index.html

    https://www.highendnews.info/reviews...ereign-eng.htm
    It looks like the VMPS has some similarities with a line array. On that one the specs are not at all specific.

    On the Duntech the specs seem relatively clear but maybe you are referring to the fact that they donít indicate whether the measurements are in-room or anechoic / GP (ground plane). In that sense I agree. It is always best to look at a response curve that includes notations indicating the measurement details.
    Steve

  4. #49
    Senior Member HCSGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    All this talk reminds me of these systems from the 80's... No recollection of how they were measured.

    https://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...mps/index.html

    https://www.highendnews.info/reviews...ereign-eng.htm
    When I was in college (late 80's), I called VMPS and ended up talking to the designer (don't remember his name) and asking him questions about their Tower II, which I think you could buy as a kit. At the time, I was pretty ignorant about speaker design, but had been reading JBL catalogs my entire life. When he told me the woofers had (I think) 2" voice coils and 40oz magnets, I'm pretty sure I chortled and said something that made the discussion proceed downhill rapidly. I remember him saying something about there being many different factors to consider in getting good bass, that I should make some effort to learn speaker design, and have a nice day.

    Not surprisingly, I did not buy VMPS speakers. I bought a pair of L100T3's instead.
    That the internet contains a blog documenting your life does not constitute proof that your existence is valid. Sorry.

  5. #50
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,024
    Steve,

    RE "Some companies use plastic cone mid-range/mid-bass drivers but to me they donít sound articulated (lacking in upper mid-range transients)."

    Most of the woofers on-hand are paper pulp cone, though some may have been treated by the manufacturer.

    The 10" with special cone i use in the SR pair mentioned doesn't use a plastic cone, but rather the following (from tech sheet):

    "The specially formulated cone pulp allows this driver to give a warm and smooth response throughout the bass frequency range and delivers well balanced tonal characteristics..." "Specially formulated cone coating provides HF vocal clarity." The HF vocal clarity mentioned is more low mid than HF since the driver's response extends to almost 2khz then cone breakup peak kicks in. And its not a musical instrument driver, its described as a bass driver.

    A small pair of near field speakers i use is described as having "Plasiflex" cones, maybe some type of plastic??

    Richard

  6. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Steve,

    RE "Some companies use plastic cone mid-range/mid-bass drivers but to me they donít sound articulated (lacking in upper mid-range transients)."

    Most of the woofers on-hand are paper pulp cone, though some may have been treated by the manufacturer.

    The 10" with special cone i use in the SR pair mentioned doesn't use a plastic cone, but rather the following (from tech sheet):

    "The specially formulated cone pulp allows this driver to give a warm and smooth response throughout the bass frequency range and delivers well balanced tonal characteristics..." "Specially formulated cone coating provides HF vocal clarity." The HF vocal clarity mentioned is more low mid than HF since the driver's response extends to almost 2khz then cone breakup peak kicks in. And its not a musical instrument driver, its described as a bass driver.

    A small pair of near field speakers i use is described as having "Plasiflex" cones, maybe some type of plastic??

    Richard
    Richard,
    That is interesting. Does the "Plasiflex" cone basically look like plastic? I am assuming that it is the near field speakers are using the 5" that you mentioned before. In my experience, if the crossover point is low enough (around 2Khz) then they can sound nice but then the max SPL is limited because the excursion ability of the tweeter is limited. Maybe there are some plastic cone drivers out there that sound nice playing all the way up to 3Khz (where they are typically crossed over) but in my personal experience, have just not seen one.

    The beautiful thing about speakers (and audio equip) is that we have the freedom to build the system that sounds best to us. With that said, It is always fun for me to listen to other peoples opinion. I always learn something

  7. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Steve,

    RE "Some companies use plastic cone mid-range/mid-bass drivers but to me they donít sound articulated (lacking in upper mid-range transients)."

    Most of the woofers on-hand are paper pulp cone, though some may have been treated by the manufacturer.

    The 10" with special cone i use in the SR pair mentioned doesn't use a plastic cone, but rather the following (from tech sheet):

    "The specially formulated cone pulp allows this driver to give a warm and smooth response throughout the bass frequency range and delivers well balanced tonal characteristics..." "Specially formulated cone coating provides HF vocal clarity." The HF vocal clarity mentioned is more low mid than HF since the driver's response extends to almost 2khz then cone breakup peak kicks in. And its not a musical instrument driver, its described as a bass driver.

    A small pair of near field speakers i use is described as having "Plasiflex" cones, maybe some type of plastic??

    Richard
    This is off topic but do you have TS data for the 2205H? The data sheet that I saw for it didn't seem to have complete TS data.

  8. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    somewhere on Hood Canal
    Posts
    261

    Drews Clues

    Hi Steve,

    You might find interesting, Drews Clues in the perspectives of the JBL library. Drew Daniels, AKA the ancient audiophile. built a whiz bang holy mackrel system out of JBL components. Also some time ago, there was a fellow who built a pair of super subwoofrs using 2 2235's per vented box. They would go down to 15 Hz or so. Each box was 17 ft3. He published his design in Audio Magazine be for it closed its doors. I'm sorry I don't remember the authors name, or the issue of Audio.

    I have experimented in my own small listening space, which is also the living room of our abode, running stereo and mono signals to my own Sub type speakers. I get more bass from mono than stereo. I also crossover at 60 hz. I realize each room is different and It might vary from each recording. FYII, am a classical music listener.

    Keep on Listening and have fun

    Ed
    KEEP ON LISTENING!

  9. #54
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,530
    Hello Ed

    Don't think this is the same article but just want drop it in here as a reference as it's a bit buried in the site!


    http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../1983-subs.htm


    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  10. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Hi Steve,

    You might find interesting, Drews Clues in the perspectives of the JBL library. Drew Daniels, AKA the ancient audiophile. built a whiz bang holy mackrel system out of JBL components. Also some time ago, there was a fellow who built a pair of super subwoofrs using 2 2235's per vented box. They would go down to 15 Hz or so. Each box was 17 ft3. He published his design in Audio Magazine be for it closed its doors. I'm sorry I don't remember the authors name, or the issue of Audio.

    I have experimented in my own small listening space, which is also the living room of our abode, running stereo and mono signals to my own Sub type speakers. I get more bass from mono than stereo. I also crossover at 60 hz. I realize each room is different and It might vary from each recording. FYII, am a classical music listener.

    Keep on Listening and have fun

    Ed
    Nice !! I have TS data for the 2235. Is it similar to the 2205?

  11. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Ed

    Don't think this is the same article but just want drop it in here as a reference as it's a bit buried in the site!


    http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../1983-subs.htm


    Rob
    Nice article !!

    Actually I don't have anything against Powered subs and a DSP / EQ. It is just that recently I am working on passive speaker projects. My goal is +/- 1.5db 20Hz to 20Khz. Because it is more difficult to engineer, I like the challenge. From an educational standpoint, I learn more (I hope).

  12. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Hi Steve,

    You might find interesting, Drews Clues in the perspectives of the JBL library. Drew Daniels, AKA the ancient audiophile. built a whiz bang holy mackrel system out of JBL components. Also some time ago, there was a fellow who built a pair of super subwoofrs using 2 2235's per vented box. They would go down to 15 Hz or so. Each box was 17 ft3. He published his design in Audio Magazine be for it closed its doors. I'm sorry I don't remember the authors name, or the issue of Audio.

    I have experimented in my own small listening space, which is also the living room of our abode, running stereo and mono signals to my own Sub type speakers. I get more bass from mono than stereo. I also crossover at 60 hz. I realize each room is different and It might vary from each recording. FYII, am a classical music listener.

    Keep on Listening and have fun

    Ed
    Yes I think many people blend the L & R low freq together (mono). Do you have a pair of FR (full range) speakers sitting on top of Base cabs?

  13. #58
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,024
    Steve,

    RE Does the "Plasiflex" cone basically look like plastic? (post #51)

    Hard to say if its plastic or a coating applied to the woofer for damping/rigidity? Its relatively stiff cone though.

    The XO from woofer to 19 mm tweeter is at 4.5 khz. The fun with these small near field is that they're optimized for flat power response (off axis) instead of the usual on-axis. Mfr even says not to toe them in but rather let them fire straight out. The effect is quite interesting from such small size.

    Richard

    Name:  IMG_0865.jpg
Views: 135
Size:  121.6 KB

  14. #59
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,024
    Steve,

    RE This is off topic but do you have TS data for the 2205H? (post #52)

    First pic is a copy, with TS parameters, of a 2205 computer printout given to me in 1980 by JBL's Canadian distributor. I don't use the driver in the 5.5 CF box indicated since its too large for this older SR woofer (not intended for subwoofer use). This old one uses imperial measures.

    Second pic is the TS for 2205H from JBL's own TS Table. That one gives Metric measures.

    The main discrepancy between the two sets of TS is on Xmax when converted to the same units.

    Richard

    Name:  IMG_1328.jpg
Views: 143
Size:  133.9 KBName:  IMG_1973.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  144.1 KB

  15. #60
    Member clwinbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C 2020 View Post
    Nice article !!

    Actually I don't have anything against Powered subs and a DSP / EQ. It is just that recently I am working on passive speaker projects. My goal is +/- 1.5db 20Hz to 20Khz. Because it is more difficult to engineer, I like the challenge. From an educational standpoint, I learn more (I hope).

    Iíve read a review of the L100T (seemed very detailed) that stated it was remarkably flat 20Hz-20KHz +-3.5db. Your space has more to do with low end, but it was an interesting review.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. LE14A Full Range?
    By bedrock602 in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 05-28-2019, 10:32 PM
  2. My new full range SABA Greencones
    By stephane RAME in forum Miscellaneous Gear
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-01-2008, 05:33 AM
  3. my full range LE8T
    By zzzz_kendall in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-19-2007, 05:18 PM
  4. G 135A-8 full range 15"
    By louped garouv in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-03-2006, 06:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •