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Thread: My most recent acquisition

  1. #1
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    My most recent acquisition

    Hi,

    last summer my DIY 4430 clone project has come to a sudden stall. As the enclosures were finished, they encountered a very bad WAF. Much too big!!! But I was itched too seriously and began searchin for their smaller siblings. And yes, here they are! Acquired through an ad, I hauled a pair of 4425's yesterday and immediately integrated them in my gear:

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    They weren't exactly cheap, but I'm proud of them, as they simply sound amazingly! Never heard treble that crisp from any other speaker. Much space in their performance! I really like them!

    I see that they need pair of stands, though. What would you recommend regarding the height? Should the 4425's be flush with the sideboard's lower or upper edge?

    Best regards!

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    Nice find! I also really like those horns. Very smooth and detailed to my ears. Need to put my pair back into the active rotation. I too wanted a pair of 4430's. Thought they would be world class with the 2216nd substituted for the 2235.

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    They look great. I would make the stands high enough to get the horns at your seated ear height. Almost looks like the same height as your cabinet legs.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Agreed, I think the center of the horns should be about a meter from the floor. This is a typical seated ear height. That said, you may run into WAF issues with the speakers elevated that much. If so, you may need to elevate them less and recline them slightly.


    Is that the new Yamaha integrated amp? It looks beautiful. How do you like it?


    Widget

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    Yes, it's a Yamaha A-S3000 integrated amplifier that I really love . It's got plenty of inputs, among them two pairs of balanced ones, a MM/MC phono section, and, of course, it's classic look with these big VU or peak (switchable!) meters. It's got 100 watts @ 8 ohms p. ch. output power, which is sufficiently enough, especially with the 4425's.

    Anyway, I've heard that this unit is NLA. Did you refer to it's succedessor?

    Above it sits a Yamaha NP-S2000 network player, a rather universal tool as I've found out . I'm about to copy most my digital audio archive onto a NAS which this player has access to.

    Above that one an analogue Dual CT 1450 AM/FM synthesizer tuner (analogue FM still sounds more detailled by far than compressed radio streams), and on top a Dual CS 741 Q TT that I modified heavily.

    Best regards!
    Last edited by Kay Pirinha; 11-30-2020 at 05:48 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    Nice find! I also really like those horns. Very smooth and detailed to my ears. Need to put my pair back into the active rotation. I too wanted a pair of 4430's. Thought they would be world class with the 2216nd substituted for the 2235.
    Just out of curiosity: Is it possible indeed to swap the 2235H for a 2216H Nd in a 4430? Their TSP's differ significantly, so I suspect there need to be altered many other things (enclosure tuning, maybe xover alignment etc.). Is this something that someone else yet has been done?

    I'm sure the day will come that I can finish my 4430 clones (they're almost finished, I just need to mount the drivers and the horns) and put them into service. I'm also tinkering with replacing the 2235H's (actually mine are 2225 baskets professionally reconed with genuine C8R2235 kits) by E140 baskets with Simply Speakers aftermarket 2234 kits. What I'd like to know here: Is it better to recone the E140's for 2234H's or for 2235H's (with the mass rings I already have) on steroids before installing them in my 4430 enclosures?

    Best regards!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay Pirinha View Post
    Just out of curiosity: Is it possible indeed to swap the 2235H for a 2216H Nd in a 4430? Their TSP's differ significantly, so I suspect there need to be altered many other things (enclosure tuning, maybe xover alignment etc.). Is this something that someone else yet has been done?

    I'm sure the day will come that I can finish my 4430 clones (they're almost finished, I just need to mount the drivers and the horns) and put them into service. I'm also tinkering with replacing the 2235H's (actually mine are 2225 baskets professionally reconed with genuine C8R2235 kits) by E140 baskets with Simply Speakers aftermarket 2234 kits. What I'd like to know here: Is it better to recone the E140's for 2234H's or for 2235H's (with the mass rings I already have) on steroids before installing them in my 4430 enclosures?

    Best regards!
    My best guess is yes for substitution. I am running 4333B's with the 2216nd bass drivers. They however are not a cheap driver. Around $600 each US. Most of the JBL box tunes in the 1980s were 28-30Hz. The cabinet volumes for the 4333 and the 4430 are probably close enough. Bass is much tighter and lower midrange is a vast improvement in my estimation. I know that the QTS is higher for the 2216nd, but, frankly I think the bass in my setup is smoother plus tighter. My 4333's have the Nelson Pass charge coupled crossovers. If you look at the difference between the original crossover and the Pass design, the bass to midrange is the same minus the auto former. I did have some concern about leaving the impedance rise compensation network in place due to the fact the 2216 has about a third the inductance of the 2235. But never a problem driving them with the Yamaha AS-3000, my amp also.

  8. #8
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    RE The driver substitution and cabinet volume, plus "I know that the QTS is higher for the 2216nd, ..."

    It is possible that box size may still be appropriate even though the 2216 Qts is higher than 2235, in view of the drivers' Vas parameter (the other box size influencer).

    Years ago many woofers had low Qts/high Vas, whereas the more recent trend at JBL appears to be the other way around with high Qts/lower Vas (low Vas = low compliance = stiff suspension). Sometimes these can achieve comparable bass curve results. I think the stiffer suspension systems might be related to the much higher power capabilities of modern drivers, and then foam surrounds seem less popular.

    Also looking at some TS numbers posted recently by Grumpy in a 2216 thread, its evident that Vas numbers have "melted" compared to 2235 or other oldies. Higher Qts pushes upwards on box size while low Vas number pushes downwards on that same proper box size, with some surprising results. Still need modeling to know for sure.

    I haven't modeled yet the above woofers side by side (done 2235 alone) but i did model in the past a similar TS situation involving the 2225H (higher Qts, lower Vas) vs the 2205H (low Qts, higher Vas) used in the same box, and they had pretty close predicted LF response graphs. Regards,

    Richard

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