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Thread: For the Love of Money...

  1. #1
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    For the Love of Money...

    On the Ethyl Mermans. CD on Oppo-95 through Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver in "Direct" mode. No eq, digital processing, room correction, sub, etc.

    https://youtu.be/qzjztUEy2V8

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Nice. Studio effects as an instrument (nearly) ...fun blast from the past.

    youtube had these juxtaposed (coincidence?) lol

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Lovely! And thanks for posting it.

    But I still marvel at the expectation that a YouTube video of any hi-fi system will sound like anything beyond what the viewer is listening on. The superb definition, separation, extended frequency range, and spatial imaging on display here sounded . . . pretty much just like anything else on my laptop's dime-sized speakers! Even if I played it on my 4345s would it give me any idea of what your system sounds like in your room??
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Lovely! And thanks for posting it.

    But I still marvel at the expectation that a YouTube video of any hi-fi system will sound like anything beyond what the viewer is listening on. The superb definition, separation, extended frequency range, and spatial imaging on display here sounded . . . pretty much just like anything else on my laptop's dime-sized speakers! Even if I played it on my 4345s would it give me any idea of what your system sounds like in your room??
    Agreed..., but,

    You can still hear smooth vs peak and dips in the frequency response, clarity in the vocals, and an overall balance. (At least I can.) If you can't even get those right, forget about the rest of it.

    Sure you loose the separation, imaging (which is fantastic!), bass (camera compresses it), tactile feel, slam, and je ne c'est quoi, but I can certainly listen on my Advent computer monitor system and hear the differences between a good system and mediocre fare.

    If your computer is lacking, listen on good headphones.

    Here's a thought. Kendrick Sound advertises through YouTube. You don't think that they recognize that people are listening on their computers and not everyone will listen over their monitors?

    Also, do you think that the recording industry doesn't release music because they don't think that everyone can listen on optimal systems? I have SACDs that run full bandwidth to the rear channels. While most people rear's don't do the full bandwidth, that doesn't stop them from releasing them in this manner.

  5. #5
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    Agreed..., but, . . .

    If your computer is lacking, listen on good headphones.
    Oh I could have listened to your video on my TV room L5/Crown/JBL amp system, or my living room 4345s, but then I'd be listening to a recording of your speakers played back on some other speaker or headphone. No way I'm hearing your system!

    Similar questions are what is at the end of the universe and not unrelated to looking at your reflection in a hall of mirrors. At some point, what is real? Same issue with Kenrick: What you're hearing is whatever speaker/headphone/system you're listening to their videos on. You are not hearing their systems. A picture may be worth a thousand words but a recording of a recording played back on any other setup or system is . . . well, not really much of anything related to the original source!
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    A picture may be worth a thousand words but a recording of a recording played back on any other setup or system is . . . well, not really much of anything related to the original source!

    So, you can't listen to two systems on YouTube and tell if one "could" sound good and the other like "would" sound like crap? You can't tell if the frequency response is smooth or riddled with peaks and dips?

    I can listen to people's YouTube cell phone recordings of JBL L200s and L300s and still hear the vocal "veil." You can't do that?

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    So, you can't listen to two systems on YouTube and tell if one "could" sound good and the other like "would" sound like crap? You can't tell if the frequency response is smooth or riddled with peaks and dips?

    I can listen to people's YouTube cell phone recordings of JBL L200s and L300s and still hear the vocal "veil." You can't do that?
    Simple answer? No.

    To me it either sounds like someone made a bad recording, or they made a good one. Either way the final presentation of a video—badly recorded or good—is that of the system I'm hearing it on.

    Would you actually make a purchasing decision for a pair of speakers from a Youtube video? Really?

    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    It must be the "end of days"

    .
    finding myself agreeing with all Phils posts (in this thread)
    Learn to forget

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    Agreed..., but,

    You can still hear smooth vs peak and dips in the frequency response, clarity in the vocals, and an overall balance. (At least I can.) If you can't even get those right, forget about the rest of it.

    .
    Seriously...Lol.

    What about the wonky response of the iPhone mic?

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    What about the wonky response of the iPhone mic?
    Even if a professional recording engineer created the recording using state of the art recording equipment and techniques, which is highly unlikely, there is the room/speaker interplay so we still really couldn't know what the speakers sound like in another setting or even another location in the same room, and then there is all the lossy compression of YouTube.

    It is cool that so many people can share their enthusiasm for this hobby on that platform, but for any practical use in comparisons or evaluations, I am baffled by the many who find this method of review useful.


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  11. #11
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    What about the wonky response of the iPhone mic?
    Hello Ian

    I used to use my phone at shows sometimes still do. My android isn't much better. It can sound remarkably good as long as you don't go too loud with simple material. They seem to have built in compression and frequency tailoring or the microphone is just falling apart. It odd stays "clean" but you can hear the frequency balance change and the compression if the levels get too high. So you end up with a recording that is changing with the dynamics. Odd sounding to say the least but the video seems to grab your attention so it not as noticeable as if it was only audio.

    Ended up buying a small digital video recorder for making home recordings Zoom Q4N I can drop in my pocket and take to shows. That works great in comparison because you have a true stereo pair of microphones and you can adjust the recording level. Microphones can take 140 dB levels so it stays clean unless you botch the recording level.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    The really ridiculous part is that there is no certainty the sound heard is created by the system on camera.

    Fatuosity, long a key assumption in hi fi promotion, in certain situations has been entertaining me for years.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Simple answer? No.


    Then I feel sorry for you.

    I can listen to the JBL "family" of 15"/compression drivers and hear it over a YouTube video.

    Are you honestly going to tell me that these systems sound the same? You don't hear the depression in the vocal range and the peak in the upper midrange?
    https://youtu.be/luLoNduS9CQ

    And you can't compare that to these L200s? Note the difference in response and clarity. But there is still some vocal veil.
    https://youtu.be/dSSq98nBJM4

    Listen to these Hecos and listen to the clarity of the vocals with no masking. The bass is deep and tight.
    https://youtu.be/-FsDBv3EjG8

  14. #14
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    The really ridiculous part is that there is absolutely no evidence the sound heard is created by the system on camera.
    Well, then there is that.

    Are you suggesting someone might simply replace the mic feed with the direct line level signal? I am shocked! My dad often quoted the truism, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure".

    In this case, I am sure Todd and most other enthusiasts are not doing that, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least some of these demonstrations have done it.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    The really ridiculous part is that there is absolutely no evidence the sound heard is created by the system on camera.
    That's just BS. Maybe for some unscrupulous flippers, but not for the hobbiests in general. In so many cases it is easy to see/hear when someone moves the camera around and the sound changes accordingly.

    I encourage any and all to go to this thread and just start listening to the hundreds of entrys on the best you can muster. Look at the systems, and how the recordings were done and you will see/hear the general trends of the various manufacturers' "sonic footprints" characteristic of their wares, assuming that your monitors can provide a fairly flat response.

    https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...ear-it.782592/

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