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Thread: Fave speaker cables for JBL?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Darren69's Avatar
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    Fave speaker cables for JBL?

    Gents, any faves? I am currently running Mike Lenehans Foilflex with nice results but haven't experimented that much.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Twisted pair 12ga. works pretty darn well. Not glamorous or expensive, but it does a fine job.


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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    we never fail to fail, it is the easiest thing to do

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    That one is zip cord. Twisted pair has the theoretical advantage of noise canceling.


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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    That one is zip cord. Twisted pair has the theoretical advantage of noise canceling.


    Widget
    >> That one is zip cord. YUP

    >> Twisted pair has the theoretical advantage of noise canceling.

    theoretical sells. , usually for big bux.

    Shun Mook still in business selling theory ? YUP. ==>> http://www.shunmook.com/
    we never fail to fail, it is the easiest thing to do

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    >> Twisted pair has the theoretical advantage of noise canceling.

    theoretical sells. , usually for big bux.
    Well... two points:

    1. The theory behind noise cancelling is based on pure science not Audiophile mumbo jumbo. (I am not saying that it will make an audible difference in every system, but it does offer a real POSSIBLE benefit.)

    2. It doesn't have to be costly. 50' from Monoprice is just over $30.


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  7. #7
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Well... two points:

    1. The theory behind noise cancelling is based on pure science not Audiophile mumbo jumbo. (I am not saying that it will make an audible difference in every system, but it does offer a real POSSIBLE benefit.)

    2. It doesn't have to be costly. 50' from Monoprice is just over $30.


    Widget
    I guess we come from different experience and definitions. Twisted pair has a different meaning in the computer world.

    from your link.

    BEST ANSWER:...

    I don't think conductors are intentionally twisted around each other to a spec like Cat 5/6. There is some twist to them inside the jacket. AWG does have a standard of turns per inch, but it appears that's a maximum. The conductors are not bonded inside the jacket either for what it's worth
    .
    we never fail to fail, it is the easiest thing to do

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    The last time I checked I could no longer hear up into the MHz.


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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    The last time I checked I could no longer hear up into the MHz.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  10. #10
    Member Flamingo's Avatar
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    Bill Whitlock is one of the main people behind the science of the problem of the "conduit transformer", and how conductor twist rates can defeat noise in both high-voltage premises wiring and amplified speaker conductors.

    Mr. Whitlock's work with Dean Jensen as lead engineer at Jensen Transformers has saved untold grief for those who would reliably and consistently deploy an audio/video system with relative immunity to the environment it must live in. He is unapologetic in his mission to save mere mortals thousands of dollars ill-spent on cables and magic devices to eliminate noise, when they do not. He also designed the most accurate transformers in the world - accurate meaning they will output what is put into them, with high isolation away from various noise and RF. There are other transformers that "color" sound in ways many of us find artistically pleasing, but when it comes to building a neutral platform on which to make sound happen, a good transformer can save you.

    https://www.jensen-transformers.com/...ic-Version.pdf

    TLDR;

    Magnetic induction of noise into cabling needs to hit both hot and neutral (+/-) conductors equally. When this happens, the noise mostly cancels, much like a good impedance balanced line-level circuit. When noise hits the conductors unevenly, the affected conductor carries the noise current along with it.

    Conductor pairs carrying current typical to common US 120V service and power amplifiers for speakers do not necessarily need to be shielded.

    Noise in premises wiring (especially when in conduit) _can_ be significantly reduced by twisting hot and neutral at equal intervals, while leaving the grounding conductor out of the twist.

    Speaker cabling pairs should be twisted about 5 twists per foot. Cable gauge to be used is dependent on current carrying needs and normal equations for voltage drop over distance. Unshielded 12-gauge, 2-conductor cable with a high strand count (for flexibility, not bogus skin effect mumbo jumbo) works fine for almost any normal system.

    Parallel zipcord should not be used if at all possible, because of the above-mentioned susceptibility to magnetically inducing noise into one conductor over the other relative to the noise source - the two conductors will never be equally distant to the noise source.

    You can "get away with" a lot of bad practices for a long time...until your wife wants to add dimmers to the living room lights, or the kid buys a groovy but cheapo tri-color LED strip light from Amazon and sticks it to the wall on the other side of your listening room.

    Anyway, black and white spools of 12GA THHN and a drill motor can make wonderful speaker cable. Alternately, Whirlwind (and a couple others) has commissioned Belden to make a flexible black PVC jacketed 12-2 with a consistent twist rate. This may have higher WAF and for sure is easier to manipulate. Then I can spend the money saved on the truly hard to find driver I'm jonsing after

    There you go, probably way more than you wanted to know

  11. #11
    Member Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    I guess we come from different experience and definitions. Twisted pair has a different meaning in the computer world.

    from your link.

    BEST ANSWER:...

    I don't think conductors are intentionally twisted around each other to a spec like Cat 5/6. There is some twist to them inside the jacket. AWG does have a standard of turns per inch, but it appears that's a maximum. The conductors are not bonded inside the jacket either for what it's worth
    .
    I've often used Belden bonded-pair category cable for a stereo unbalanced 3.5mm wall jack input 200-250' feet away from the system rack, using a Jensen input transformer to feed a balanced DSP input. The twisting of the pairs is what makes the difference. The transformer wasn't even necessary on some jobs, but became standard practice for us after one project that had a high power AM radio transmitter antennae across the road.

  12. #12
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    I like the grey coloured Canare cables. Easy to work with, high quality and very flexible. Nicely compatible with Speakon connectors too.

  13. #13
    Senior Member brutal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Bill Whitlock is one of the main people behind the science of the problem of the "conduit transformer", and how conductor twist rates can defeat noise in both high-voltage premises wiring and amplified speaker conductors.

    Mr. Whitlock's work with Dean Jensen as lead engineer at Jensen Transformers has saved untold grief for those who would reliably and consistently deploy an audio/video system with relative immunity to the environment it must live in. He is unapologetic in his mission to save mere mortals thousands of dollars ill-spent on cables and magic devices to eliminate noise, when they do not. He also designed the most accurate transformers in the world - accurate meaning they will output what is put into them, with high isolation away from various noise and RF. There are other transformers that "color" sound in ways many of us find artistically pleasing, but when it comes to building a neutral platform on which to make sound happen, a good transformer can save you.

    https://www.jensen-transformers.com/...ic-Version.pdf

    TLDR;

    Magnetic induction of noise into cabling needs to hit both hot and neutral (+/-) conductors equally. When this happens, the noise mostly cancels, much like a good impedance balanced line-level circuit. When noise hits the conductors unevenly, the affected conductor carries the noise current along with it.

    Conductor pairs carrying current typical to common US 120V service and power amplifiers for speakers do not necessarily need to be shielded.

    Noise in premises wiring (especially when in conduit) _can_ be significantly reduced by twisting hot and neutral at equal intervals, while leaving the grounding conductor out of the twist.

    Speaker cabling pairs should be twisted about 5 twists per foot. Cable gauge to be used is dependent on current carrying needs and normal equations for voltage drop over distance. Unshielded 12-gauge, 2-conductor cable with a high strand count (for flexibility, not bogus skin effect mumbo jumbo) works fine for almost any normal system.

    Parallel zipcord should not be used if at all possible, because of the above-mentioned susceptibility to magnetically inducing noise into one conductor over the other relative to the noise source - the two conductors will never be equally distant to the noise source.

    You can "get away with" a lot of bad practices for a long time...until your wife wants to add dimmers to the living room lights, or the kid buys a groovy but cheapo tri-color LED strip light from Amazon and sticks it to the wall on the other side of your listening room.

    Anyway, black and white spools of 12GA THHN and a drill motor can make wonderful speaker cable. Alternately, Whirlwind (and a couple others) has commissioned Belden to make a flexible black PVC jacketed 12-2 with a consistent twist rate. This may have higher WAF and for sure is easier to manipulate. Then I can spend the money saved on the truly hard to find driver I'm jonsing after

    There you go, probably way more than you wanted to know

    Does this explain why the DIY White Lightning cables sound good?


  14. #14
    Member Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brutal View Post
    Does this explain why the DIY White Lightning cables sound good?
    Lol...Basically, yes

    The twist rate is semi-random in extension cords, based on what day they were assembled and the quality of the PVC jacket that keeps whatever twist rate in place. You know how some cables just seem to twist funny from the minute you open the package? That's mostly the inner conductors moving around in the outer jacket. Besides being a pain to work with, those probably will have more random than not twist rate.

    Also, the third conductor in an extension cord must be used or it can become an unintentional antenna. It's also unnecessary bulk to have that conductor for a two-conductor circuit.

    Between the above, and getting a known good twist rate, I just get the Whirlwind/Belden 12-2 when the cable doesn't have to be in conduit and needs to be coiled neatly on stage. They also make the stiffer gray-jacket CL2 wire for conduit runs (much easier to pull).

    BTW, I have broken the twisting "rule" many times. Most of my four-conductor Speakon cables are of a decent twist rate, but they are all four conductors twisted together, not each pair twisted separately. Just good Belden or Carol 12-4 SOOW or SJOOW. You will see one of these in the Shearer Horn thread when I finally get to posting more pictures there (I just got my GPA replacement diaphragm for the 288-8G, and no time to install it yet).

  15. #15
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Also, the third conductor in an extension cord must be used or it can become an unintentional antenna. It's also unnecessary bulk to have that conductor for a two-conductor circuit.
    Sometimes that bulk can be advantageous. In my case, the 6Moons extension-cord fits these Neutrik dual-bananas perfectly:

    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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