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Thread: A better unit than the JBL 2245?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    It depends on the application?

    In a sub woofer application it a more defined choice in terms of output and extension.

    An 18 comes into its own if you want both extension and output.

    The 2245 is not a sound reinforcement woofer as such. They may have been used in commercial cinemas in banks of four or eight when first introduced.

    In a multi way hifi system application l think it comes down to the specific system and what’s most important. The enclosure location and height Off the floor is often optimised for the smoothed bass response.

    If you want linearity the 2245 is my preference.
    I have used dual 2235’s and it’s not the same. The 2235 sounds like a loudspeaker. In comparison on a double bass acoustic recording the 2245 doesn’t sound like a loudspeaker (In my system at least abs that’s the feedback from other listeners)

    Edit

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hp?10654-2245H

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hp?10651-2235H

    The primary difference is sensitivity, cone area and diaphragm displacement for equivalent output.

    At 50 hertz a 15 inch drivers cone has to move four times as far as an 18 inch drivers cone for the same acoustic output. That is where the linearity of the larger driver has the advantage.

    I read that from a red loudspeaker book written by Don Davis and Alex Bradmanoff. I think Mr Widget also has a copy of that book. Don’t ask me what happens with two 15 inch woofers!

    In a plug and play situation differences may be apparent. But l have rarely found plug and play a successful approach to comparisons.

    The 1400 driver used in the S9500 was set up and tuned up for the Japanese market. They tend to prefer a leaner damped bass. The blue baffle systems (as they are known in japan) have the traditional Jbl bass which a lot of Jbl users prefer. That’s why they did two ranges.

    Some DD67000 users plug the ports because that is their preference.

    If you are after a sub woofer for Home Theatre that goes louder and is this and that there
    are a number of specialist drivers that will meets your expectations. They have large spiders and surrounds, heavy stiff cones and massive Xmax but they generally don’t mix well with a hifi loudspeaker.

    In diy loudspeakers anything goes and as such opinions are diverse which is fine. But l don’t feel asking for an opinion on a forum of one loudspeaker or driver over another holds much weight without a detailed account of the circumstances or conditions.

  2. #17
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    I would disagree with any negative thoughts on the 15" if I could. I would just give this example. A friend (concert business partner) and I went to a local theater to see Asia years ago. I had heard Clair Bros. systems before. I'm pretty sure they were there for this concert again using their S4 cabs. For those that don't know, they have all JBL drivers, 18", 10", 2" and super tweets.

    The second the concert started and all the way thru, the sound was amazing. The vocals were crisp and clear. No fatigue listening to any freq. Full rich warm sounds. If I close my eyes, 30++, some years later, I swear I can still hear that concert. I can only give an analogy that it was like you were part of the band and the speakers were connected to you directly. They didn't sound tonal, or colored in any way. I couldn't distinguish the sources of the sounds, like horns and cone woofers.
    From then on, my opinion of 18" woofers totally changed. I used to dismiss them earlier as being too muddy or colored, from the old W bins I heard. No one I knew of ever had them in their house. Hearing them in that theater makes me think you are right about them. Of course, all the stars need to align with time alignment, room resonance, etc., to be like that night in the theater. My old PA system built after that concert, my new PA system I'm building now, both have 18"s for the lows. I have had great success with them choosing the correct crossover freq. (and power) to help get them dialed in. I still like my old JBL 15"s for their overall versatility and output. I do use 18"s in my PA so I can't make a stand here.
    Wait! I do now have a new JBL studio 550p 10" sub in my living room so I am open to change! …. and it's almost broken in.

  3. #18
    Senior Member tjm001's Avatar
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    Sub 1500

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    In my system I am using a Sub1500. It is in a sealed enclosure of about 2.5 cu ft. That said, I would not push it up above 80Hz and it will only work in this small enclosure with an active EQ bumping up the bottom end...........


    Widget
    Is that the same as the Dayton Audio Sub 1500 like in: https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiS2OiV-qvnAhXMnLMKHeucD88YABASGgJxbg&ohost=www.google.com &cid=CAESQOD2G1TBiJe9E02JhEwf965jHi0X-A0jDP5faSf5KgUVX_rNpF_JJxZKv6ZkFg0FJ2s0yLucEmnklzE QAoZBpIY&sig=AOD64_1CV5uandAB2bziFY9MRwc3Z6cmJA&ct ype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwj3p96V-qvnAhW4lnIEHSRhANYQ9aACegQIDRBh&adurl=

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  5. #20
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    No. I'm pretty sure Mr. Widget was talking about the JBL Sub1500. Few years back Parts Express had a blowout sale on them. I don't think the Sub1500 is around anymore.

  6. #21
    Senior Member tjm001's Avatar
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    Thanks. Looks like that was quite a deal at $249 if I'm seeing the right price on the Parts Express website.

  7. #22
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjm001 View Post
    Thanks. Looks like that was quite a deal at $249 if I'm seeing the right price on the Parts Express website.
    It was a crazy good deal. Quite a few of us here at the time bought up hundreds of them... a handful had failures with improperly glued spiders, but other than that it was truly a once in a lifetime deal.

    JBL subsequently re-engineered the driver making a few minor improvements to it and changing the model number to the W1500H.


    Widget

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I

    The primary difference is sensitivity, cone area and diaphragm displacement for equivalent output.

    At 50 hertz a 15 inch drivers cone has to move four times as far as an 18 inch drivers cone for the same acoustic output. That is where the linearity of the larger driver has the advantage.
    Im sorry but I can´t comprehend your calculation.
    An 18 inch cone has aprox. 50% more cone area than a 15 inch cone. If the 15 inch cone moves 1,5 times as far as an 18 inch cone it would move the same amount of air. And soundpressure is a product of cone area and cone movement if I´m not mistaken...
    Why does it have to move 4 times as much?

  9. #24
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I need to check that book when l find it.

    However, the 2245 has increased linearity over 2235.
    It also has greater boundary reinforcement that the 2235.

    You have to hear it go to appreciate the differences.
    I run an 800/800 watt stereo without any sign of strain.

  10. #25
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    W15GTi and a shiite-load of power. Goes both lower and higher, smoother than the 2235.

  11. #26
    Senior Member tjm001's Avatar
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    Best boom for the buck in a compact woofer?

    After reading this thread so far I have to ask this question. I just sold my 2245s after abandoning my 4345 project because I'm planning on downsizing. So what are some recommendations for a compact woofer to complement my L300s that are using 2235Hs? Any ideas without spending a fortune? Thanks.

    Tom

  12. #27
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjm001 View Post
    After reading this thread so far I have to ask this question. I just sold my 2245s after abandoning my 4345 project because I'm planning on downsizing. So what are some recommendations for a compact woofer to complement my L300s that are using 2235Hs? Any ideas without spending a fortune? Thanks.

    Tom
    Hi Tom,

    I think, looking from the hi-fi point of view, that it would be very, very difficult to get better driver, then 2231/2235 which is L300 bass driver, reproducing almost down to 30Hz.

    regards
    ivica

  13. #28
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    One thing that I believe contributes to our general fondness for the 2245 is that for some reason we tend to use them properly. It is a nice compliant low fs woofer that is well suited for a very large ported enclosure with a moderate power supply. Employed that way it has a very relaxed hi fidelity musical character. We all know it and against all odds we use them that way.

    It seems like we just try to beat everything else into submission.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Tom,

    I have no personal experience with this brand but as an add on outboard sub that looks appropriate in a 15 inch cube size. Like anything in Audio it’s difficult to make a recommendation as it’s a case of personal audition to determine if the product meets your expectations and budget.


    https://www.svsound.com/collections/subwoofers

    My suggestion is listen to program material you are familiar. You may prefer a seal sub for music reproduction.

    The 2335 driver in the L300 enclosure tuning is useable to 35 hz with -6 dB in the low 30’s.

    They are great for music reproduction but may not satisfy the requirements of a sub woofer driver for contemporary motion picture sound track effects.

  15. #30
    Senior Member tjm001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjm001 View Post
    After reading this thread so far I have to ask this question. I just sold my 2245s after abandoning my 4345 project because I'm planning on downsizing. So what are some recommendations for a compact woofer to complement my L300s that are using 2235Hs? Any ideas without spending a fortune? Thanks.

    Tom
    Thanks for the responses. I apologize for the sloppy writing. I just realized that what I wrote was interpreted as using a 2235H in a compact sub woofer. What I was trying to say is that there are 2235Hs in my L300 clones instead the usual 136As. I have "2 hole" L300 clones.
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