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Thread: A better unit than the JBL 2245?

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    A better unit than the JBL 2245?

    The old JBL 2245 has always been recognised as being very musical but do any of the modern transducers surpass its performance. Has to be obtainable of course. I cross up to a pair of 1400pros.

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    I feel the newer ones are better. Higher power handling, longer vmax, etc. I think the 2242h was superior in every way.
    I would use them for PA use though. So many 2245 failed out on the road that reconing was a regular thing.
    I don't have much experience in the house. So what's you intended use?
    I was amazed to get my hands on the 2258h and see it perform. It's so light I can't believe it. So then the 2268, 2278, 2269, 2279, and now the 2288 I haven't got my hands on. I've read of flaws like distortion or high heat loss of performance. I'm guessing that in the house, you wouldn't see the full benefits or even these possible flaws?

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    Quote Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
    I feel the newer ones are better. Higher power handling, longer vmax, etc. I think the 2242h was superior in every way.I would use them for PA use though. So many failed out on the road that reconing was a regular thing. I don't have much experience in the house. So what's you intended use?I was amazed to get my hands on the 2258h and see it perform. It's so light I can't believe it. So then the 2268, 2278, 2269, 2279, and now the 2288 I haven't got my hands on. I've read of flaws like distortion or high heat loss of performance. I'm guessing that in the house, you wouldn't see the full benefits or even these possible flaws?
    I want to try a unit in my 4 way active HiFi system.

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    Define better? If you want more bomb proof then the newer woofers are hands down better, if you want more hi-fi... that's subjective, but you might prefer the 2269. It is the woofer that Kevin Voecks based his ultimate subwoofer on. Admittedly he was able to have Harman's transducer engineers rework the driver into a different beast, but is was similar to the 2269.


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    Thanks Widget, my guess is that its the law of dinminishing returns and subjective. I cross the 2245s fairly high 160hz so it's a difficult act to better. I found the change from the 2123 to the 1400pro a huge improvement.

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    I agree with Widget you could go with a 2242 use the same box and tuning. But unless you are really pushing them hard I don't know how much benefit there would be.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    I absolutely love mine!!! I have four of them stacked and I've yet to hear a better home-stereo subwoofer. To be fair, my room is acoustically treated with bass traps and other devices, but still, most high end subs I've heard don't seem to go nearly as low or as taught.

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    Would 2x15 inch per side be a better option as per the Everest? I find the efficientcy of the 2245s fine and believe they are more Hifi than the 2242s?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ketley View Post
    Would 2x15 inch per side be a better option as per the Everest? I find the efficientcy of the 2245s fine and believe they are more Hifi than the 2242s?
    Probably a matter of taste here. I find the 15" version to be tighter and more punchy (up slightly higher freq towards 100). I find the 18" to be deeper ( closer to 40hz). IMO, the trouble is that with some music, the deeper 18" can be tiring to listen to for longer periods. Like a loudness button on a receiver, it's needed sometimes, and not other times.
    I think that set to proper levels, both can be quite good. You can enhance a 15" so that with your eyes closed, you would think it's an 18".
    I feel that an 18" sounds like an 18". Great, but not the same as a 15". Make any sense?
    Notice that some of the subs out there are using 10". It's easier to enhance the bottom (in smaller rooms). It's harder to get that quick higher punchiness. Just my opinion here which maybe is not proper on this type of forum.

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    I raised this question out of curiosity, I thought I would find a new modern unit that would blow away the 2245. I also like the idea of a smaller cabinet, 10 cubic feet x 2 is large.
    I will stick to the 2245s, we ae always seeking something that might be unobtainable. I guess the limitations of the room I listen in has far more influence on the sound than investing in drivers that give marginal improvement, if at all.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
    Probably a matter of taste here. I find the 15" version to be tighter and more punchy (up slightly higher freq towards 100). I find the 18" to be deeper ( closer to 40hz).
    You must be talking about 2226H and 2242H drivers? I personally am not keen on them for hi-fi applications.

    I have compared dual 2235H and single 2245H and the output is similar, though subjectively I preferred the sound quality of the 2245H.

    Quote Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
    IMO, the trouble is that with some music, the deeper 18" can be tiring to listen to for longer periods. Like a loudness button on a receiver, it's needed sometimes, and not other times.
    In my experience a true extended low end response is never a bad thing. An exaggerated bottom end, say above 50Hz or so can get annoying, but having a properly balanced low end into the 20s is awesome when the material calls for it and is non-existent when the material doesn't have that content.


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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ketley View Post
    I raised this question out of curiosity, I thought I would find a new modern unit that would blow away the 2245. I also like the idea of a smaller cabinet, 10 cubic feet x 2 is large.
    I will stick to the 2245s, we ae always seeking something that might be unobtainable. I guess the limitations of the room I listen in has far more influence on the sound than investing in drivers that give marginal improvement, if at all.
    In my system I am using a Sub1500. It is in a sealed enclosure of about 2.5 cu ft. That said, I would not push it up above 80Hz and it will only work in this small enclosure with an active EQ bumping up the bottom end.

    I am not aware of another woofer that produces musical deep bass and is good up into the upper bass/lower mids as well as the 2245H. Unfortunately the trade off with it is that as a pro driver it was way too fragile. In a home hifi it has few peers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    .....I am not aware of another woofer that produces musical deep bass and is good up into the upper bass/lower mids as well as the 2245H. Unfortunately the trade off with it is that as a pro driver it was way too fragile. In a home hifi it has few peers.
    Widget
    I continue to believe the 2245h is the finest home audio subwoofer I've heard. I am not a fan of using it for duty above subwoofer, however. I know it measures quite well above that, but I just feel it gets congested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    You must be talking about 2226H and 2242H drivers? I personally am not keen on them for hi-fi applications.

    I have compared dual 2235H and single 2245H and the output is similar, though subjectively I preferred the sound quality of the 2245H.

    In my experience a true extended low end response is never a bad thing. An exaggerated bottom end, say above 50Hz or so can get annoying, but having a properly balanced low end into the 20s is awesome when the material calls for it and is non-existent when the material doesn't have that content.


    Widget
    Yes, well very close. I forget the number exactly? I think they were 2205/6? 15" in my old JBL scoops? I ran E130/140s in my low mids. I forget what was in the folded horns used by others. I just ran them in clubs. The cabinets (and type of delivery) were big factors I'm sure. I got to try other's equipment when we went into "in house" systems.
    Every once in awhile I would fire them up in a house or our warehouse for testing. I did later acquire 2225/6s.
    I later toured with a sound system (w/INXS) that had Martin bins on the lows. They would fill an auditorium with bass and punch you in the gut in any seat. Again, was definitely the cabinet coming into play. I'm pretty sure they had both 15"s and 18"s for the bottoms. I never got any info on crossover points as I was just working for the warm up act for most of the '97 tour.
    BTW I find your posts very interesting and always accurate with stuff I agree with. I'm not sucking up here. I'm just saying what I read.
    I will bow out as again, I don't have a lot of home experience with this stuff. I have had it in my hands most of my life and feel like I should know what it does well.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
    BTW I find your posts very interesting...
    Thanks

    As the well known quote goes, "Opinions are like... everybody's got one."
    These days I try to make it clear when I post an opinion that may not be widely held, versus those that are nearly universally held.


    While I still agree with many of my older posts, I do sometimes wonder what the heck I was thinking 10-15 years ago... or last week.


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