New member: advice needed for xover points on a four way system

[Nick Birkby]

Hello all,
Im this is my first post though I have spent a of of time reading here in the past. Im musician and dj based in Cape Town, South Africa.

I have been buying up jbl components over the last few years to build an active 4 way crossover system for playing back mainly 70s jazz/ funk vinyl. Im after a nice wide dymamic range and good clarity/ seperation on the vocals and instruments. My end goal is to have a system that I can play at some small parties/ social gatherings for friends at medium sound levels. The horns are a bit big for a permamnent setup in my home space.

For bass/ midbass duty I have a pair of 2206 12" drivers currently in big folded horns which i am thinking of putting into more manageable sized cabs.(suggestions welcome)

For lower mids I have a pair of the phenolic 2482 drivers on a pair of very wide Vitavox CN 157 horns. Rather battered cabs ex cinema/ theatre.

Upper mids/ treble 2446 on 2380 horns with the regular titaniam diapragms

For tops I have something of a choice, either 2402 bullets (although I only have one and would need to buy another) or some small Renkus Heinz horns SSD 1400B

The crossovers are 90s analog BSS FDS360 and Im going to have to make all the crossover cards once Ive decided on the frequencies (they have these little frequency cards that slot inside the unit) At the moment Im trying to configure a digital crossover with a soundcard to do some listening tests which is a bit fiddly.
At the moment Im thinking, purely as a starting point, of running the bass from 50 up to 5-600 hz and then the 2482 from 600 to 3.5k and the 2446 3.5 to 7-8k followed by the Renkus Henz 7-8 and up. I have always found the 2446 a bit bright, and Im hoping the 2482 adds some mellowness to the mids.

Id be curious to hear any advice on the crossover points or in general on the project. Thanks! Nick

[robertg]

I would ditch the 2482s. Not that I don't like them, but they only go a little lower than the 2446. I would go with a 15" or 18" from the bottom to 100-200 hz, 2206 up to 1200 hz or so, and the 2446 above that. I thought the 2446 is good up to 10,000-12,000 hz or so.

Hopefully someone else with a little more experience can help out, but I don't see the point of using the 2446 and 2482 together.

[Mr. Widget]

I would ditch the 2482s. Not that I don't like them, but they only go a little lower than the 2446. I would go with a 15" or 18" from the bottom to 100-200 hz, 2206 up to 1200 hz or so, and the 2446 above that. I thought the 2446 is good up to 10,000-12,000 hz or so.

Hopefully someone else with a little more experience can help out, but I don't see the point of using the 2446 and 2482 together.

I agree... I couldn't possibly live with a 2206 as the "woofer" and don't see the point of the 2482 and 2446, I'd go with one or the other and make the appropriate changes. As for crossover suggestions, that would come after tweaks to driver choices.

Of course these are just my opinions.


Widget

[Nick Birkby]

Thanks for the advice all. I will try each and see which I prefer, it may simpify things in the long run.

To be clear, the primary reason for wanting the 2482 in the equation is that I find the sound of the 2446 a little hard and and tiring on the ears in the lower mids. If budget allows in future i may try and get some of the Radian aluminium 2446 diaphragms as I read that these mellow them a bit?

But yes, I see the point that two similiar horns may be overcomplicating things.
Thanks again.

[1audiohack]

Hello Nick;

My approach is a little different, but not totally. All this assumes everything you have is in proper working order.

2206’s are very good mid bass-mid range driver in a pro application but you will have to run them up pretty high to match the directivity of a 90 degree horn.

It looks like the VitaVox horn is about a 90 degree horn? That would make it about the same as the 2380.

I use JBL 2206’s for subs in one of my systems in Danley THMini clones. That’s the best I have ever heard a 2206 sound as a sub. The band width is 40Hz to about 120Hz.

I am sure acquiring this stuff is not easy there but here is my suggestion:

Clone some TH mini’s for the 2206’s. 2204’s work good too. Just reduce the power a little.

Find some light cone 15” drivers for mid bass-mid duties. 2220’s, E130’s, E145’s, or E140’s

Run the 2482’s on the Vitavox’s over the 15’s crossed about 850Hz and just let them run out on top. They turn off at 5300Hz.

Find a pair of 1” to 2” adapters and use the Renkus drivers on the 2380 crossed in about 5.3kHz as tweeters.

Here’s my top down rational. I have never heard super tweeters like the 2402’s put out near enough 5-10kHz energy to sound right on top of a large format horn with phenolics, even with three per side, which you would need to even come close to having the coverage you would need outside of a small room. The 1” drivers used above 5kHz will be bullet proof and provide plenty of HF with a bit of EQ.

The 2482’s should sound wonderful on those big Vitavox horns. I would use them for sure.

A 15” mid bass will work in a small sealed box making that part easy and inexpensive.

Sell or trade the 2445’s for some good 15’s of you can.

What you really don't have is enough low frequency capability unless you have at least four 2206’s and can clone the mini’s.

What might be available for subs?

Also a decent DSP would help immensely.

Barry.

[Nick Birkby]

Thank you Barry for the advice Im going to check out the THmini clones.

Some background- at the moment I have the 2206 in a pair of the big Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba folded horns. They sound great and push out huge spl's but are 30" cubed so quite unwieldy.
Im keen to find an alternative although I will keep the boxes. These are powered by a Crest 8001 which is a pretty powerful amp.

I have some of those EV 15L drivers I could use for midbass but would have to get them reconed. The JBl components are hard to find here, its often a case of luck. There are some old Gauss drivers floatiing around but very heavy cones.

Im experimenting with some crossover software called Ekio which seems pretty good. Its a trial version so limited to 4 way mono, but thats ok to experiment with.
I will look for throat adapters as well. Good idea that.
Thanks again.

[Nick Birkby]

Just a quick update: in testing, I have been running the 2482 on the Vitavox horns from about 550 up to 5500 and the 1" renkus Heinz further up- I found some medium sized Eminence H290B horns which work well for the 1", better dispersion than the small metal horns that came with them. I have also tested a 2402 wich sounded great, a bit more sizzle, but not quite as smooth as the RH. Each had their respective merits, I need to listen more.

When I have time, Im going to try the 2482 on a 2380 to hear how it sounds

I see one can buy a horn adapter for a 2402, has anyone tried this? I suppose it would change the character quite a lot...