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Thread: After 5 years it finally begins

  1. #1
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    After 5 years it finally begins

    Some of you may know that the M2 hysteria was started back in 2015 when I ordered the first 2pcs JBL M2 WG's by their spare part number trough a very friendly speaker shop in Florida (they still are!) and actually got them to my very big surprise. They were the first two to be sold separately. I quickly ordered 6 more and got them too. Pure joy.

    I posted data here on LH and I think some jaws dropped in that they were actually obtainable at that point. Many have since successfully built M2’s or clones in various forms. The rest is history.

    My own WG’s have been sitting idle while seeing others build nice speakers over the years. I have supplied M2 adapters to many and assisted many builds in any way I could.

    Now its time to get my dusty WG’s in service.

    This tread will cover the original idea with replacing my current LCR system with DIY M2 Rev RoB WG’s, 1400PRO, 2451Be and 045’s.

    Just to be certain I’m also building a pair of faithful M2 clones at the same time. Maybe not that faithful, I’m going to use the -1 woofer and 4” drivers (also have D2's). More of that in a separate thread if anyone would be interested.

    Attached are some pictures and more to follow.

    Kind regards
    //RoB


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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  2. #2
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    nice!

    what's happening at the last photo?

  3. #3
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Your threads are always a good read, cant wait to see the progress. Is there a reason you chose the 2216-1’s over the nondash?

    Thanks,
    Scott

  4. #4
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Yes RoB, I think all of us M2 DIYers can be grateful to you

    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    m going to use the -1 woofer and 4” drivers
    SL diaphragm I presume. Hmmmm, passive crossover maybe?

  5. #5
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Yes RoB, I think all of us M2 DIYers can be grateful to you
    Yup, both of you

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    nice!

    what's happening at the last photo?
    Looks like he is scanning them in a CNC machine

  7. #7
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Didn’t he cut them shorter and port two of them for super tweeters? Looks like a mill op to me.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Looking forward to see you complete them! I have been sitting on mine as well. One of these days

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #9
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Thank you for the positive comments.

    I wanted to keep the 2451Be’s as the Be dias do have a nice tone but at the cost of sharp roll off in higher frequency. I would have preferred to build a 2-way system but the tests I did using the BSS DSP to flatten the curve felt like it lost the crisp in the higher segment. I can get the curve pretty good with a lot of EQ but when adding a tweeter, the treble got more clear and “airy”. Even if the curves look pretty much the same. I did not experience the same with the SL dia’s using required EQ for them. Odd

    I typically hate when science (measurements) and perception deviate like that. I don’t believe in psychoacoustics. Be as it may, 3-way with sub it is. :-)

    Anyway, as I have the 045’s with the K2 UHF horns they will have to be used here too. Many new speakers strive after providing a point source and JBL has over the years integrated UHF units in their horns to reduce the acoustic centre distance. I decided to do the same and integrate the 045’s in the M2 WG’s. Hence the CNC milling.

    This system is also wall hanged to mitigate animated discussions with other family members, so the requirement was that these are keep rather narrow. The M2 WG’s are quite wide so the only way was to put the blade in them.

    Attached are some pictures. I will revert with more info over the coming days.

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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  10. #10
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    In the CNC job we also took off the upper edge to minimize the baffle space. The 045 horn’s was recessed on the side were the logo normally should go. I know they are JBL’s so I don’t need that 😊 .

    The next job was to make them narrower. That was a nightmare as the material these are filled with is some kind of glas/plastic mix that is a pain to saw in. I had to change the blade after each cut. And the smell is not for the fainthearted.

    I made a jig to be able to cut straight as these WG’s are curved in many directions. A bit crude but it worked out just fine. They will be recessed in the new cabinets and after repainting I hope they will look factory to all but the trained eye.

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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  11. #11
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Our Swedish McGuyver , Great work Rob.

    Prob some mineral fill in that plastic , did you try pure carbide , 3 flute spiral downcut at a lower speed..

    M

  12. #12
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi Macaroonie,

    I used a hard metal blade and that just died after each cut. I had three blades but had to file them for the second cut. Carbide would have been perfect but probably at a price. Anyway, now they are in a nice "wall-hanging-friendly" size.

    I have done some preliminary measurements and the difference from a "non-molested" WG is not that big. I will have to do better measurements soon. My workshop is rather small so I will have to figure out a way to get some decent flight time before the first echo.


    I want them as compact as possible so using the squarcle 1400PRO with the M2 WG is very area effective.

    The centre is mounted above an opening in wall into the next room and my screen is roll-down with speaker cloth at the top black-drop. It is angled 15 degrees down so the new one will have to be similar.

    The new system wil be LCR with the new cabinets described here and the old fronts will be used as L+R rear. My faithful SUB1500 subs will stay as they are still very good compared to many alternatives. All will be finnished in light Oak, as today. Everything for the family peace.

    Come to think of it, I have no idea were to put the M2 clones we are building at the same time. As there is no chance to hang them on the wall, I guess there is some "compensation" needed to keep the family peace.


    I have a professional furniture builder do them as I’m all to familiar with my limited carpenting skills and I have no CNC ´machine :-) . I’m supposed to get them within a few weeks.

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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  13. #13
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Here are the ideas for the new center.

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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  14. #14
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    Very fun to follow this project, subscribing to this thread now! I wish you good luck.

    What is the rough timetable, will it be ready for Christmas?

    Please tell us about all family compensations you will have to do! I guess they are not fixable with DSP!

    Are you using the same carpenter as I did (Södertälje Specialsnickeri)?

  15. #15
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi bubbleboy76,

    I guess a "DSP compensation" would have limited IRL compensation impact .... :-) . Probably healthy to stick to other options.

    We are not using the same carpenter. The one we are using is located 300km south of me. They are also building the monitor cabinets for us.

    The left and right speakers will be rather shallow to look "smallish" on the wall. I know that will impact low end but with DSP and reasonable amount of power in a normal living room I think I can compensate for the fall off below 200hz. I will XO @ 70Hz towards the subs. I hope that will be fine.

    Right now I have two SUB1500 subs in closed 70L cabinets and they sound just fine. However I do have two more almost brand new SUB1500 drivers so maybe I should make a second pair. I don’t need more bass but maybe 4 subs can reduce the nodes a little. That is really not a problem in my room either but I need a reason to do something with them. They are not making anyone happy in the cardboard boxes in the shop. Or just stop the madness and sell them.

    Right now my favorite subs are the 12” active LSR4312P, they are just wonderful under a pair of 305P active monitors for office duty.


    I hope to get the new cabinets before X-mas. Maybe the M2’s at the same time. That would be nice.

    Electronics will the same (now almost ready for the museum) Meridian G68 pre with digital 7.1 (only using 5.1) out feeding SPDIF (24/96) to a BSS BLU800 with 8 analogue out and a separate BSS BLU-BOD DAC that adds another 8 analogue channels out. The BSS feeds two Crown CTS8200 (8-channel amps) and a MC2 (class B sub amp) amps via two 8 channel Burr&Brown PGA2310 based VCA’s.

    I also use a BSS BLU-USB unit to feed digital sound into the BSS DSP. That is a pretty neat unit and not expensive. You can actually run 7.1 through them as they are 8 channel (in and out) devices by using a program called Virtual Audio Cable. With that you can assign an output from a SW player to any output and feed asynchronous USB audio direct digital to the world of BSS DSP as long as they have a BLU-LINK connector. Brilliant !!

    Fronts are 3-way and rear will be only 2-way. The rears will use the old front cabinets with dual 8” drivers and a 2451SL on the VTF F12 WG (as today). The SL’s can go all the way which the Be’s cannot (in my opinion) , hence the 045’s in the new fronts.

    Enough ranting today, attached are some drawings of the left and right cabinets.

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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

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