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Thread: Building my dream system, need lots of advise!

  1. #16
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Speaker Exchange has them their site says. They are over $500 each which seems like a lot but when you total in core baskets and the shipping to get them to you, the cost of 2235 cone kits at about $200 each, install labor,, the shipping to and from a recone facility, you can easily approach $400 each by the time you get them ready to go. And they still are a dated design with OEM support weakening by the day.

    Also any JBL PRO shop that can buy recone kits can buy the 2226Nd. The 2216Nd-1 seems a bit harder to get.

    This is the woofer in the current top of the line JBL large format studio monitor, support there is as good as it gets.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  2. #17
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Speaker Exchange has them their site says. They are over $500 each which seems like a lot but when you total in core baskets and the shipping to get them to you, the cost of 2235 cone kits at about $200 each, install labor,, the shipping to and from a recone facility, you can easily approach $400 each by the time you get them ready to go. And they still are a dated design with OEM support weakening by the day.

    Also any JBL PRO shop that can buy recone kits can buy the 2226Nd. The 2216Nd-1 seems a bit harder to get.

    This is the woofer in the current top of the line JBL large format studio monitor, support there is as good as it gets.

    Barry.
    You forgot to mention... they just plain sound good.
    Great, is probably more like it! If I was going to do a DIY today, that is the woofer I'd go with.


    Widget

  3. #18
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    SpeakerExchange has both 2216ND and 2216ND-1 listed. the ND is in stock but ND-1 will take a couple of weeks. I just send them inquiry to see if they can actually get it and the price. Still googling all the reports. It seems that ND-1 is the better one.

  4. #19
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    I have never heard the 2216nd nor the 2216nd-1, but I believe they need additional eq in the lowbass? They have a much higher resonance-frequency compared to the 2235. Itīs like 35hz vs. 20hz I think...
    It seems they wonīt deliever the rich lowbass as the classical 2235īs... Or will they perform similar with signal chaping?

  5. #20
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    got reply from SpeakerExchange

    2216ND-1 are $725 each
    2216ND are $575

    or I can get a used pair of 2235H for around $800-$900.

    More research needed.

  6. #21
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    plotted 2235H (red) vs. 2216ND-1 (green) on WinISD.

    both are in 5 ft^3 cabs tuned to 28Hz.

    In order to get the 2216ND-1 to achieve similar response, the cab will have to be 6.5+ ft^3

    Name:  2235H-2216ND1.png
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Size:  18.5 KB

  7. #22
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    2216s

    I paid around $800 (at speakerexchange) for my second ND-1, the first one (a year earlier) was priced just over $600.
    First one took several weeks to arrive. Second one came faster, but arrived DOA, and was replaced within a week.
    There are now quite a few comments about using these in upgrades or DIYs - posted here and on AudioKarma (and elsewhere).
    Google is your Friend.
    Alobar has posted his REW results on AK (Below), and I got essentially the same, or good down to 23hz or so, with only minimal EQ (I simply used just one of the lower DIY M2 EQ settings (POS, thank you) for the ND variant).
    https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....-again.835545/
    (This is in a 5 cu.ft. cabinet).
    NDs or ND-1s, for me: Brand New, Under Warranty, deeper, cleaner, really deep bass, significantly improved lower midrange (~1khz) and imaging vs. used, older, 2235s of unknown history/condition (so needing service to be certain) for (very roughly) the same cost....the NDs were a no-brainer, and No Regrets!
    That's my 2cents - but just enjoy the heck out of what ever route you take!
    PS!
    I also have a 4645C 18" (also with some EQ) - the 2216ND-1s will match it every step of the way (down), and more cleanly, but lose a tiny bit in sheer power (chest impact) delivered.
    The 18" is driven by 1500w (Crown XLS), the ND1s by 150w (Bryston), too: so there's That, too.


  8. #23
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.db View Post
    I have never heard the 2216nd nor the 2216nd-1, but I believe they need additional eq in the lowbass? They have a much higher resonance-frequency compared to the 2235. Itīs like 35hz vs. 20hz I think...
    It seems they wonīt deliever the rich lowbass as the classical 2235īs... Or will they perform similar with signal chaping?
    that's the question. I am using DSP crossover which I can use to easily EQ the missing part. but then how much can one EQ? the missing dB compared to 2235H is very close to Fs already.

  9. #24
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedseg View Post
    I paid around $800 (at speakerexchange) for my second ND-1, the first one (a year earlier) was priced just over $600.
    First one took several weeks to arrive. Second one came faster, but arrived DOA, and was replaced within a week.
    There are now quite a few comments about using these in upgrades or DIYs - posted here and on AudioKarma (and elsewhere).
    Google is your Friend.
    Alobar has posted his REW results on AK (Below), and I got essentially the same, or good down to 23hz or so, with only minimal EQ (I simply used just one of the lower DIY M2 EQ settings (POS, thank you) for the ND variant).
    https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....-again.835545/
    (This is in a 5 cu.ft. cabinet).
    NDs or ND-1s, for me: Brand New, Under Warranty, deeper, cleaner, really deep bass, significantly improved lower midrange (~1khz) and imaging vs. used, older, 2235s of unknown history/condition (so needing service to be certain) for (very roughly) the same cost....the NDs were a no-brainer, and No Regrets!
    That's my 2cents - but just enjoy the heck out of what ever route you take!

    Very interesting! I agree witih you about risk of buying used. the price difference is not little but without have to do spend service cost.

    Looks like I might have to give Speaker Exchange a call...

  10. #25
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    I wouldn`t pay 800$ for a used pair of 2235īs. Maybe for a freshly reconed pair...

    To be honest I expected the difference in frequency-response to be bigger. The 2216 needs aprox. 2-3db eq at 30hz, that should work out. I guess JBL does this as well as the M2 is active....

    Another contender could be the JBL 1500FE or 1501FE.... They could be a little cheaper and should be available at speakerexchange too. They have a nice 4" coil and very powerful motor. Maybe someone can compare these with the 2216īs??

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    that's the question. I am using DSP crossover which I can use to easily EQ the missing part. but then how much can one EQ? the missing dB compared to 2235H is very close to Fs already.
    From POS's DIY M2 EQ settings (see his sig), the biggey is ~ +5db @ 21.5hz.
    I'm using a Venu 360 for xovers and room EQ, and really like it.
    Look up the series of posts by NWCgrad which I found extremely helpful:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...IY-3-Way/page4

    Happy readin' and spendin' !!

  12. #27
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    plotted 2235H (red) vs. 2216ND-1 (green) on WinISD.

    both are in 5 ft^3 cabs tuned to 28Hz.

    In order to get the 2216ND-1 to achieve similar response, the cab will have to be 6.5+ ft^3

    Name:  2235H-2216ND1.png
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    Stay in the 130-145 Lt and a tuning range of 27-34 hertz range and add an LF shelf boost to obtain the desired bass response.(2216nd). In a commercial product they can’t please everyone in every situation so they pick a compromise that
    will cover most of the bases.

    Again it comes down to doing some practical experimentation.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    plotted 2235H (red) vs. 2216ND-1 (green) on WinISD.

    both are in 5 ft^3 cabs tuned to 28Hz.

    In order to get the 2216ND-1 to achieve similar response, the cab will have to be 6.5+ ft^3

    Name:  2235H-2216ND1.png
Views: 259
Size:  18.5 KB
    You will find building an enclosure and trialling it in your proposed listening room in different locations more meaningful.
    One mans magazine curve can be a music lovers listening nightmare.

    The 2235H is more extended on paper with that 28 hertz tuning. In a real listening space it will sound fatter in the 40-50 region as the enclosure is moved closer to a room boundary(s). Some people have become so acquainted with the thumping bass over four decades of listening they can’t live without it.

    I know of other users who prefer the 2234H (2235H without the mass ring) and add modest bass boost as required.

    There are a number of avenues to obtaining a favourable outcome. The key is to remain flexible in your thinking ��.
    The final solution won’t be any one opinion or suggestion in this thread.

  14. #29
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Started doing all the basic work by measuring the 2397 and T925A.

    The 2397 has a DSP 24dB highpass filter @ 950Hz, while the T925A has a 2uF cap in series, which should give it 6dB slope at 10kHz. They are connected to the same output, I just unplug one and plug the other one in. So the input supply is the same.

    This was measured with the T925A sitting at the lip of the 2397. So the level don't really matter.

    Name:  2397vT925A.png
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    For time alignment, I want to find out their impulse response. This is the part that bothers me. The impulse are 8 milliseconds apart. but physically, the 2 diagphrams are 20in (50cm). that makes no sense as 8ms means they should be 105 inches apart! Am I doing something wrong here?

    Name:  2397vT925A-impulse.png
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  15. #30
    Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Ok, I think I found out why. I can't compare the delay in separate sweeps. If I hook them up together, then I get this:

    which give 1.4ms which end up 48cm which is close enough to what I measured physically.

    So strictly, if I want to have them time aligned, the T925A need to sit on top of the 2441 body. That's way back.

    Name:  2397vT925A-impulse-together.png
Views: 206
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