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Thread: New versions of old classics

  1. #31
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    One more thing

    Hey,

    i like your idea of doing modern versions of the old classic cone drivers from JBL etc.
    I just want to add that you don't forget the visuals of those drivers! If I look at a TAD 15 inch driver from any angle i just freak out about how good it looks. Makes me want one even more (besides the tsp)

    Thanks

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreativlos View Post
    Hey,

    i like your idea of doing modern versions of the old classic cone drivers from JBL etc.
    I just want to add that you don't forget the visuals of those drivers! If I look at a TAD 15 inch driver from any angle i just freak out about how good it looks. Makes me want one even more (besides the tsp)

    Thanks
    They are indeed pretty. However, there are lots of good looking drivers out there IMO. Many drivers have a look that is a direct result of their function, and that is very much true for the TAD as well. It has a grinded edge on the frame and I believe they have skipped the foam gasket. Besides that, it uses a pretty standard frame in standard finish, a motor that looks very much like other alnico motors, a direct result of the ideal geometry for alnico that differs from what is ideal for neo and ferrite.

    I have no intention of trying to make a driver look exactly like something already existing, but rather covering existing holes in the market when it comes to usage and performance, and where possible, add even more sound quality to the equation. The design will very much be a direct consequence of the drivers technical properties.

    Not sure if your purpose was to say that you dislike the design of my TAD-compatible driver, but let me ask you back: What do you think of this design?
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  3. #33
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    I just have to mention something. A very experienced horn guru in Norway has recently made a superb new horn. It reminds me of the Klipsch K402, but significantly improved. It has near perfect dispersion from 500 to 20kHz. Just look at this!:

    Name:  Sonogram Storhornet.jpg
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    The problem is that there are very few drivers out there who can work with this horn. The measurement is made with a JBL driver, but it is expected to sound even smoother with the TAD 4003. However, that is not a cheap driver. Maybe I should start developing a replacement for the TAD 4003?

  4. #34
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snickers View Post
    The problem is that there are very few drivers out there who can work with this horn. The measurement is made with a JBL driver, but it is expected to sound even smoother with the TAD 4003. However, that is not a cheap driver. Maybe I should start developing a replacement for the TAD 4003?
    I am using a pair of the TD-4003 drivers and TH-4003 (clone) horns... an excellent driver and combo. I do not think that TAD are still producing this driver or if they still are, I doubt they will be producing it much longer. Part of the magic of the driver is the incredibly low moving mass... significantly lower than even their 4001 driver's diaphragm.

    In both cases the diaphragms are made by beryllium vapor deposition. I'm not sure how you could replace that, but if you think you can, please do!!!

    Also, I'd love to know more about this horn you are teasing us with.


    Widget

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I am using a pair of the TD-4003 drivers and TH-4003 (clone) horns... an excellent driver and combo. I do not think that TAD are still producing this driver or if they still are, I doubt they will be producing it much longer. Part of the magic of the driver is the incredibly low moving mass... significantly lower than even their 4001 driver's diaphragm.

    In both cases the diaphragms are made by beryllium vapor deposition. I'm not sure how you could replace that, but if you think you can, please do!!!

    Also, I'd love to know more about this horn you are teasing us with.


    Widget
    The TAD 4003 is certainly among the all time greatest drivers out there. But, as you point out, they are no longer in production, and they are pushing 10k USD for a NOS pair.

    I think the 4003s performance characteristics are more interesting to try to fit, rather than making a copy. At the moment, as far as I know, nobody makes PVD diaphragms today, and if they do, they are both super expensive and extremely fragile.

    There are a few main focus points for a driver like this. One would be to reach as low, and as high in frequency as the 4003. That means you will have to control the break up and the mass break at one end, while at the same time maintain sufficient capacity in the low end. You will also have to have a perfect wave front out of the driver, and, off course, all the other bits and pieces necessary for a great driver. I think the easiest way to succeed is to use a radial carbon fiber ring radiator where all the fibers are radially oriented, a 3 inch voice coil, and a 3D printed phase plug. This recipie could give us a moving mass of around 0,75g, and similar surface area as the 4003. It is also slightly easier to form a perfect wave front from a ring radiator as you can bring the wave into the throat with a concentric restriction rather than just reducing the outer diameter, a bit like in the D2 driver. This is important when it comes to the wave front, which again is important to maintain high frequency output. The unidirectional carbon fiber will have an internal speed of sound not far from beryllium, and, like beryllium, it will have relatively high internal damping compared to aluminium, titanium and magnesium. But one really interesting bit is that the ring radiator just needs to be around 35mm wide, or 17,5mm to each side on average. One can make it 19mm to one side and 16mm to the other side, making the fundamentals cancel each other out. You may form the material as a continuous cone-former part, and the narrow profile gives a break up closer to 30kHz. You do not get that with a 4 inch beryllium dome.

  6. #36
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    Visuals

    I pretty much like paper cones with damping rings on them and the durable pa surroundings. Foam looks also pretty good. And the plosihed silver ring around the gasket is so important for me aswell. Pretty much the appearance of a TAD 1601x or 1602 aswell as JBL 2226 ist perfectly pretty imo.
    Sure form follows function, so keep an eye on the function first!
    As far as i can tell your design looks like a very modern woofer. I don't really like since i am a old fashioned guy, but i think many people will like it!

    best regards

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreativlos View Post
    I pretty much like paper cones with damping rings on them and the durable pa surroundings. Foam looks also pretty good. And the plosihed silver ring around the gasket is so important for me aswell. Pretty much the appearance of a TAD 1601x or 1602 aswell as JBL 2226 ist perfectly pretty imo.
    Sure form follows function, so keep an eye on the function first!
    As far as i can tell your design looks like a very modern woofer. I don't really like since i am a old fashioned guy, but i think many people will like it!

    best regards
    So you would rather see the trim ring look something like this?

    Name:  Alternative trim ring.jpg
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    The trim ring is a separate part, much like the gasket on most JBLs, Altecs and TADs. That means it is easily customizable.

  8. #38
    Member marco_gea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snickers View Post
    So you would rather see the trim ring look something like this?

    The trim ring is a separate part, much like the gasket on most JBLs, Altecs and TADs. That means it is easily customizable.
    Why are all your driver mock-ups polygonal and not round??

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by marco_gea View Post
    Why are all your driver mock-ups polygonal and not round??
    Since this drawing is made for technical purposes, it is limited to 24 edges. I could run it as 96 or 192, but it would take 4 or 8 times longer for everything I do, including rendering. With just 24 edges it renders to decent quality in a minute or so.

  10. #40
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    Re: A very experienced horn guru in Norway has recently made a superb new horn. It reminds me of the Klipsch K402, but significantly improved. It has near perfect dispersion from 500 to 20kHz. Just look at this!

    Very impressive to beat the K402! Would that be
    Bjørn Kolbrek's new horn? If it is, I can't find it on his site. Like Mr. Widget says, would love to know more about this horn...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchco View Post
    Re: A very experienced horn guru in Norway has recently made a superb new horn. It reminds me of the Klipsch K402, but significantly improved. It has near perfect dispersion from 500 to 20kHz. Just look at this!

    Very impressive to beat the K402! Would that be
    Bjørn Kolbrek's new horn? If it is, I can't find it on his site. Like Mr. Widget says, would love to know more about this horn...
    No, this is not developed by Kolbrek. I am not directly involved in this project myself. However, he does not have any commercial ambitions, and he has said that I will get go to make a version of it when he is ready, so as soon as he is ready for it and gives the green light, I will share more info. It is likely to be to versions, where the large one is around 1100mm wide, and the "small" one is around 800mm wide.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snickers View Post
    No, this is not developed by Kolbrek. I am not directly involved in this project myself. However, he does not have any commercial ambitions, and he has said that I will get go to make a version of it when he is ready, so as soon as he is ready for it and gives the green light, I will share more info. It is likely to be to versions, where the large one is around 1100mm wide, and the "small" one is around 800mm wide.
    OK cool, thanks for that. Will it accommodate 1.5" exit drivers? Also, don't know if you have seen this on diyAudio? https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...easy-ath4.html

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchco View Post
    OK cool, thanks for that. Will it accommodate 1.5" exit drivers? Also, don't know if you have seen this on diyAudio? https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...easy-ath4.html
    Oh, that looks interesting!

    It will fit 1,4 inch exit drivers to begin with. I am not sure if it will be altered to fit 1,5, but I doubt it will be altered for 2 inch as the high end will collaps.

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