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Thread: 2216 nd1s In L300s

  1. #16
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Good vibes all round

    I'm delighted to hear all these positive comments, while I have 2235's I have long held doubts about the mass ring and it's effects , positive and negative. TBH I doubt that it behaves properly above 500Hz. It just sounds dark.
    It seems that the more agile 2216 addresses this issue.
    My question is , is there a 12" that is the same motor but with a smaller cone ?
    Like 2226 and 2206.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    ~ 10 grams of mass added via aquaplas on the rear of the cone reducing Fs to ~ 28 Hz along with a modified edge treatment on the cloth surround. Well controlled and very consistent with very good performance.

    Courtesy 4313B

    Rob
    Thanks Rob ( +4313B ).


  3. #18
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    I'm delighted to hear all these positive comments, while I have 2235's I have long held doubts about the mass ring and it's effects , positive and negative. TBH I doubt that it behaves properly above 500Hz. It just sounds dark.
    It seems that the more agile 2216 addresses this issue.
    My question is , is there a 12" that is the same motor but with a smaller cone ?
    Like 2226 and 2206.

    Hi macaroonie,
    may be 2262hpl
    the respone can be seen at page 5. of
    https://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/...-33%20rev3.pdf

    regards
    ivica

  4. #19
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    Plot of the freq. response with the new 2216nd. No changed to the crossover. Measured @ one meter.Name:  4333B w.2216nd.jpg
Views: 238
Size:  82.4 KB These sound and measure like plug and play. With Nelson Pass crossovers.

  5. #20
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    Plot of the freq. response with the new 2216nd. No changed to the crossover. Measured @ one meter.Name:  4333B w.2216nd.jpg
Views: 238
Size:  82.4 KB These sound and measure like plug and play. With Nelson Pass crossovers.
    Hi johnlcnm,

    I think that for such large box speakers measuring from about distance 3m would show more realistic results.
    Applying only 1st order network (instead of 3rd applied by JBL) for UHF (2405) would introduce strong 'comb filter' effect (as can be seen).

    regards
    ivica

  6. #21
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    Yes, a lot of interference. The setting is not a good one for measurements. Looking at the spectrum, I'm a little concerned about the anomaly at 700Hz. I need to check the polarity of the mids and woofers. I did reverse the input to the 2216nd's, as their phase should be the reverse of the former 2235's. The crossover outputs to the mids were not marked. I did meter back to the crossover inputs and mark them. I need to make sure the phase is reversed between those two drivers.

  7. #22
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    Name:  4333B with 2216nd-12.jpg
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Size:  79.6 KB
    Good advice Ivica. About 1.5 meters. At tweeter level. Still a little sickout at the mid crossover. Stock L-pads are at the zero position.

  8. #23
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    Driver phase reversal

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    Yes, a lot of interference. The setting is not a good one for measurements. Looking at the spectrum, I'm a little concerned about the anomaly at 700Hz. I need to check the polarity of the mids and woofers. I did reverse the input to the 2216nd's, as their phase should be the reverse of the former 2235's. The crossover outputs to the mids were not marked. I did meter back to the crossover inputs and mark them. I need to make sure the phase is reversed between those two drivers.
    Nelson Pass reversed the polarity only on the mid driver.

  9. #24
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    Yes, a lot of interference. The setting is not a good one for measurements. Looking at the spectrum, I'm a little concerned about the anomaly at 700Hz. I need to check the polarity of the mids and woofers. I did reverse the input to the 2216nd's, as their phase should be the reverse of the former 2235's. The crossover outputs to the mids were not marked. I did meter back to the crossover inputs and mark them. I need to make sure the phase is reversed between those two drivers.
    Hi johnlcnm,

    If You measure the distance from the mic and center of the bass driver You can get the length distance differences, not to mention floor surface influence. So some measurements can be done while speaker box is laid on its back side, and put the mic on top over it, as high as possible away from the speaker.....


    regards
    ivica

  10. #25
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    Good advice Ivica. I need to summon help from my neighbor to move the speakers from the stand to the floor. I want to pull the woofers and check the midrange polarity again. One of the reasons that I rejected making the measurements Ha Ha! Blue. Nelson did reverse the polarity on the midrange. I want to make sure that I was not confused when I checked that the first time during the crossover build. Both terminals read minus on the PC Card.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrassmaven View Post
    Nelson Pass reversed the polarity only on the mid driver.
    Finally checked the polarity. All was good. Midrange and 2216nd phase reversed. I will re-iterate. The 2216nd seems to be plug and play with the L-pads set to zero. Shot of the crossover mounted behind the 2216nd. Name:  4429 047.jpg
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Size:  224.4 KB

  12. #27
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    Mission Accomplished

    Got the drivers, built clones of the 4367 LF network: what an awesome epiphany! No need for any more tweaks or equipment purchases. I have a brand new music library.

  13. #28
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    New Music!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrassmaven View Post
    Got the drivers, built clones of the 4367 LF network: what an awesome epiphany! No need for any more tweaks or equipment purchases. I have a brand new music library.
    Excellent!
    Did you have to make any port changes? (the ones on my l200s did not require any)
    Did you go charge coupled (like the original, I believe) on the 4367 LF xover?

    I definitely get the 'all new music library' thing - every recording I own requires a second listening now!
    (And other upgrades on the way.)

    Enjoy!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedseg View Post
    Excellent!
    Did you have to make any port changes? (the ones on my l200s did not require any)
    Did you go charge coupled (like the original, I believe) on the 4367 LF xover?

    I definitely get the 'all new music library' thing - every recording I own requires a second listening now!
    (And other upgrades on the way.)

    Enjoy!
    No port changes. The 4367 network is charge coupled; I retained my passive Pass networks for mid and tweeter. My Pass networks use Clarity Cap bypassed with Mundorf silver oil. It sings so sweetly that I resent having to go to work!

  15. #30
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    One thing that has become apparent with the Pass network, driver integration. I really cannot hear different drivers. Nothing stands out as a three way system. In other words, the sound is not bound by the box. I think Nelson mentioned that this was one of his goals. I think he pulled that effect off in spades. These modified speakers are one of the smoothest I have ever heard, plus the detail is really excellent. I do hear what Nedseg is saying about the bass, 'clarity is very good.' Does it beat the 4429? Hope I don't get flogged for this, but yes it does.

    I am going to look into the 4367 LF network, even though I don't have the 2216nd- ones.

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