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Thread: Please help with 128H's in L150A's. :)

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Both of the 128h-1 I have don't have aquaplas on them. They have a very ruff coating on the back of the cone almost like papermachte

    Rob
    Thanks Rob!

    So the original 128H was painted in white aquaplas ( according to this blurb ).

    [img]http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...l150/page3.jpg[/img]

    And the original 128H-1 had a black aquaplas painted cone ( according to the following );



    Do you have any idea when JBL stopped making the recone kits with aquaplassed cones ?


  2. #47
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I might have to eat a little crow there. I just took a look at them compared to Le-14A's. It very well could be aquaplas but the application looks different. Where the 14's are smooth and uniform the 128's are ruff clumpy almost like it was dabbed on if that makes any sense at all. Here are a couple of pictures so you can see what I mean and make up your own mind.

    Rob
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  3. #48
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    IMO the lumpy coating is spatter sprayed pulp of the same mix as the cone material.
    There to add some mass but more importantly to create an irregular surface that will not have a particular resonant frequency or perhaps it breaks up resonances on the cone surface. Laser interferometry would show the efficacy of this treatment.
    I did once upon a time have a wee pick about at that stuff out of curiosity , it seemed to be much the same as paper pulp or geggy mush as we called it at school.

    Geggy mush is where you tear off a corner from your jotter and chew it up till it is a soggy gob of spit and paper. You then use a ruler to propel said geggy mush at the back of the neck of your enemy in class. Some geggy mush could be seen on ceilings years later. Oh what fun.

    The Antivibe ( Blachford ) product is entirely different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Thank you fellas, that puts it into perspective. If he was closer, I'd of had him do the work, honest! I don't know how I got the woofer kit I have now but I'm glad someone was selling one. Just need one more... Looks like it could be awhile before one turns up and hopefully I won't need it anyway.
    That is correct...it isn't a matter of taunting you, thems the rules by JBL. We are prohibited from selling recone kits as a retail part. The part about having gap gauges is true as well. Every driver (compression or cone) gets its gap checked as per JBL before a replacement goes in. If the driver fails its gap test, and if it isn't AlNiCo, it is a dead driver, as far as JBL is concerned and non-repairable. ALNICOs can be discharged, gap recentered, and recharged (not by us but JBL can (or used to...I haven't asked in a LONG time) perform that service). And if JBL no longer does, I'm sure Great Plains Audio would since they'll do it for Altec ALNICO drivers.

    BTW...I did say that ANY JBL PRO recone center has access to the same parts as us so you should be able to find someone close to you. I'm going strictly by the service portal where the white cone kits still come up.

  5. #50
    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Both of the 128h-1 I have don't have aquaplas on them. They have a very ruff coating on the back of the cone almost like papermachte

    Rob
    The pair of 128H-1 drivers I had did have aquaplas on the front. I do not recall what the back of the cone looked like. Mine are not these below, but as shown with the application of aquaplas.

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    David F
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    I might have to eat a little crow there. I just took a look at them compared to Le-14A's. It very well could be aquaplas but the application looks different. Where the 14's are smooth and uniform the 128's are ruff clumpy almost like it was dabbed on if that makes any sense at all. Here are a couple of pictures so you can see what I mean and make up your own mind.


    Thanks Rob!

    In reality I can't determine if what you have is aquaplas or not without an actual hands-on with that cone.

    What do you think it is?

    As Mac pointed out, the back of these newer recones do look like some grade-school effort from a kids art class.



  7. #52
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    The 122As on my L65s were original and looked exactly like that. Aquaplas on the front and that lumpy texture on the back. The 129s have that same stuff on the back.

  8. #53
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi gasfan,

    Adding 2214H to the list... Regards,

    Richard

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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Derek,

    Color me confused here.
    I thought you were getting ( from your preferred reconer ) bona-fide JBL recone kits.
    Is that not the case? ( Price wise, were they inline with a costing from "
    sguttag" ? > ignoring shipping charges )
    I was under the impression that a bona-fide 128H type JBL recone kit would have Aquaplas on it ( somewhere, be it either front or back ).
    Is that eBay recone kit painted with aquaplas ?
    What about the 2 kits that were removed ? ( did they have any aquaplas on them anywhere ? )

    My reconer showed up as certified by JBL and you can even look her up through Harmon's website. But, I'm guessing she is no longer certified or doesn't have access to the portal like sguttag does. I tried suggesting going through that portal but she looked at me like I was speaking some foreign language or my face was melting away. At that point, I didn't want to risk offending her and I'm pretty sure that now, she wouldn't want to answer my calls.. Anyhow, I think she used 128H-something recone kits. The parts which came off my baskets said 129H.. Yet they had a white coating on them which does appear to be Aquaplas-like. I haven't peeled away at it yet but it appears to be several mils thick, so its not paint like I suspected it was. But I'm also positive they were not the original cones. I think maybe one of my tweeters was original and perhaps both 128H baskets were original. Both cabinets have crayon all over them and so I'm guessing kids had their way with the drivers at some point..

    sguttag didn't quote me a price because well, he can't lol. I wish he was closer, I would have had him do the work. The area I live in is terrible for audio service it seems. I'm going to have to learn to do it myself, least that's the impression I'm getting.

    The recone kit I bought with the part number sguttag provided (and the link another member here shared) came in a genuine JBL box and has the same rear pulp/paper textured rear but also has the white Aquaplas coating. Also dates back to 2001 or 2005... Pretty cool, but I need another one if I'd like to use them instead of the woofers I got from my reconer which I painted... Have you seen the pics I posted on that process? Got the color pretty close and both me and my wife are really happy with the appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    That is correct...it isn't a matter of taunting you, thems the rules by JBL. We are prohibited from selling recone kits as a retail part. The part about having gap gauges is true as well. Every driver (compression or cone) gets its gap checked as per JBL before a replacement goes in. If the driver fails its gap test, and if it isn't AlNiCo, it is a dead driver, as far as JBL is concerned and non-repairable. ALNICOs can be discharged, gap recentered, and recharged (not by us but JBL can (or used to...I haven't asked in a LONG time) perform that service). And if JBL no longer does, I'm sure Great Plains Audio would since they'll do it for Altec ALNICO drivers.

    BTW...I did say that ANY JBL PRO recone center has access to the same parts as us so you should be able to find someone close to you. I'm going strictly by the service portal where the white cone kits still come up.
    This is why I wish you were local! I doubt she gap checked the driver and I'm worried that I'll still have the same complaint as before.. Time will tell.
    Indeed you did! Like I was saying to Earl, I tried bringing that up with her and she wasn't having any of it... So what I got was what you saw in the pictures, if you saw that post. I painted them using materials I sourced from other threads in which people did similar things. So far, no issues, but I haven't been able to properly drive my speakers with the Marantz gear as that stuff is still out for service...

    Also, great pictures & posts everyone! Certainly helping me understand the differences and I hope they'll help others who come across this thread. Does anyone have a pic of an original 128H woofer from a L150 or L150A?? From the stuff I came across on the archives, it suggested the cones face was coated with white Aquaplas and the rear was also white but flat...

  10. #55
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Had a very used pair of 128H's last year , function was good and heard that they cleaned up & worked well.
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  11. #56
    Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Awesome, original 128H's!

    Do you remember if the back of the woofer cones smooth or textured? I can't make it out from the pic.. They look to be smooth & black.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Awesome, original 128H's!

    Do you remember if the back of the woofer cones smooth or textured? I can't make it out from the pic.. They look to be smooth & black.
    AFAIR, they were smooth ... didn't have them very long. (ie:sold fast)

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post394929
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  13. #58
    Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Well, I got my 510M and 3600 preamp back yesterday. Hooked all that stuff up and began to test things out. Something on the amp which never worked before were the "PEAK" lights for each channel. I also noticed that the knobs on the left for gain and such attenuate the right channel and vice versa. Strange. Guess that's how this old Marantz stuff is supposed to be? I've got everything wired correctly, left to left and such. Anyway, I can still hear that popping noise or voicecoil bottoming out. Although now when I hear it, I see the peak lights come on. Guessing that the drivers for that stuff were bad before as the unit's lights didn't work either. I worked at dialing the gain settings in based on some videos I watched and now run the amp just hard enough so that at most, the peak lights flicker. I also dialed up the mids & tweeters a bit to compensate for the midrange hump I was experiencing. Even still, seems the volume is rather tame before those peak lights pop on. So was I just running my stuff too hard before or is there something wrong with my gear or is this just normal? JBL sales crap for the L150 series states these things can handle concert volume levels and I'm not quite there yet. It's loud, yeah, but not as loud as I'd expect out of 256 wpc. Certainly not concert loud, I always have to wear ear plugs at concerts.. Guess that has to do with their low sensitivity ratings? In the past, whenever I've driven stuff too hard there was always some sort of audible distortion/break up, not some sort of loud "POP!" as I'm hearing with this gear.. Don't know what I'm missing and definitely need advice. I'm sure you guys are going to have a field day with this comment. Bring on the fire, educate the stupidity right out of me haha.

  14. #59
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    Back in the mid 80's I purchased a pair of L150As and a B-380 subwoofer from a dealer. Initially, I used a Hafler D-500 modified to bridged mono for running the sub. It was not uncommon to overdrive that amp, and the mass ring on the 2235 would hit the frame and make a "pop" sound that was frightening. I don't know if the woofers (or passive radiators) in the L150A have a mass ring, but if they do perhaps that's what you're hearing.

    It's not about amplifier watts, but quality. When I purchased a more modern and better quality amplifier for the sub after the Hafler died, I never heard that pop again even playing it much, much louder than before with less watts. The newer amplifier had much more current delivery, and a huge power supply with tons of capacitance. Early solid state amplifiers (1970s) rated at 250 watts per channel can't hold a candle to a new 250 watt amplifier from a company like Bryston or Parasound in term of controlling the woofers in your loudspeakers.

    Try borrowing a good quality recently built amplifier with the traits just mentioned and see if the problem goes away.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty jefferson View Post
    Back in the mid 80's I purchased a pair of L150As and a B-380 subwoofer from a dealer. Initially, I used a Hafler D-500 modified to bridged mono for running the sub. It was not uncommon to overdrive that amp, and the mass ring on the 2235 would hit the frame and make a "pop" sound that was frightening. I don't know if the woofers (or passive radiators) in the L150A have a mass ring, but if they do perhaps that's what you're hearing.

    It's not about amplifier watts, but quality. When I purchased a more modern and better quality amplifier for the sub after the Hafler died, I never heard that pop again even playing it much, much louder than before with less watts. The newer amplifier had much more current delivery, and a huge power supply with tons of capacitance. Early solid state amplifiers (1970s) rated at 250 watts per channel can't hold a candle to a new 250 watt amplifier from a company like Bryston or Parasound in term of controlling the woofers in your loudspeakers.

    Try borrowing a good quality recently built amplifier with the traits just mentioned and see if the problem goes away.
    Oh, that's a bummer... I just started to like this Marantz stuff too, and I'm afraid I've got too much into it to be able to go to something else. What amp would you recommend from those guys and what could I expect to pay? But I think you're right on about something hitting the frame, what else could make that noise?

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