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Thread: Please help with 128H's in L150A's. :)

  1. #76
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But if you guys feel $600 is fair for those even though the mids aren't original then let me know.
    To buck the trend: IF you wanted to add up the cost of drivers, then @600, is OK.

    Real Answer: I'd pass. Be patient, a nice set will come up that doesn't need first aid. They aren't that rare, pay a little more upfront if it's something you plan to keep.


    oddiofyl1,107 posts
    12-14-2018 10:16am
    Ouch, the dreaded WAF.....

    According to JBL guys they are worth more in parts.

    "Unfortunately, 240Ti's just aren't that desirable, so they don't sell at any premium over the drivers' raw values. I haven't seen a no-reserve Ebay auction on them, but several sellers keep putting clean sets up at $899 or a thousand and they don't sell. A year or two ago TiDome was offering his clean pair to LH members for $600 and I don't think he sold them. They have a great woofer (LE14H-1) that's worth $175-200 each if pristine. The 044Ti tweeters are also rare, you may be able to get $150 for a perfect pair. The 104H midranges are probably worth $80/pr. Crossovers and cabinets have little or no value, so you get $630 in parts value. Normally, perfect pairs would be worth much more to collectors, but this model seems to be collector proof and is desired mainly for its parts. Good luck, and let us know if you get them!"

    From Lansing Heritage site....
    https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...tion-very-nice

    https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....th-895.718240/

    https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....a-trip.806199/

    FROM THE POST BELOW: appears that LHF member:tidome has/had a pair that he couldn't sell, maybe check with him ???

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...BL-240Ti-value

    http://www.audioreview.com/product/s...jbl/ti240.html
    I'm getting tired of Winning ....

  2. #77
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Peaking at 85db ( C weighted ) is around my limit for home listening.

    I normally listen in the low to mid 70's.


    Frequency (Noise) Weightings

    85dB C is not particularly loud in my opinion. This is also content dependent. If you are listening to a typical '70s rock album at 85dB C it will be significantly louder sounding than a modern pop recording at 85dB C with lots of synthesized low bass content. When comparing music with widely varying spectral content A weighting may be more appropriate for comparing perceived loudness.

    In any event, I think 95dB A to 105dB A is closer to what many would consider fairly loud. 85dBC is hardly background music level, but loud? If the music being played has a lot of deep bass, it can actually seem pretty tame.

    Ultimately this is a pretty subjective area of discussion.


    Widget

  3. #78
    Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    To buck the trend: IF you wanted to add up the cost of drivers, then @600, is OK.

    Real Answer: I'd pass. Be patient, a nice set will come up that doesn't need first aid. They aren't that rare, pay a little more upfront if it's something you plan to keep.


    oddiofyl1,107 posts
    12-14-2018 10:16am
    Ouch, the dreaded WAF.....

    According to JBL guys they are worth more in parts.

    "Unfortunately, 240Ti's just aren't that desirable, so they don't sell at any premium over the drivers' raw values. I haven't seen a no-reserve Ebay auction on them, but several sellers keep putting clean sets up at $899 or a thousand and they don't sell. A year or two ago TiDome was offering his clean pair to LH members for $600 and I don't think he sold them. They have a great woofer (LE14H-1) that's worth $175-200 each if pristine. The 044Ti tweeters are also rare, you may be able to get $150 for a perfect pair. The 104H midranges are probably worth $80/pr. Crossovers and cabinets have little or no value, so you get $630 in parts value. Normally, perfect pairs would be worth much more to collectors, but this model seems to be collector proof and is desired mainly for its parts. Good luck, and let us know if you get them!"

    FROM THE POST BELOW: appears that LHF member:tidome has/had a pair that he couldn't sell, maybe check with him ???...
    Thanks SEAWOLF, just the type of response I was hoping to read in regards to the 240Ti's. What you said is pretty much what I told the seller, that I understand the parts could potentially be worth what he's asking but I'm not looking to part them out- so $500 is a fair price. Then I see in one of the links you attached (funny that I read through a few before in my own quest for knowledge about the 240Ti's..) and someone gave the advice of $500 for the set of 240Ti's the guy was trying to sell. And those had the original drivers and are in similar shape to the ones I'd potentially buy. I haven't heard back from the seller so perhaps he didn't like my counter response. He has been trying to sell them for over 100 days. I don't want that to be me should I not like them, which I'm sure it would be if I listened to him and even went to try and sell the stuff. Nobody ever factors in their time, effort and such when selling stuff. "I restored this car and even made $5,000!!!" Yeah well you only invested 10k of labor so you lost money IMO...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    85dB C is not particularly loud in my opinion. This is also content dependent. If you are listening to a typical '70s rock album at 85dB C it will be significantly louder sounding than a modern pop recording at 85dB C with lots of synthesized low bass content. When comparing music with widely varying spectral content A weighting may be more appropriate for comparing perceived loudness.

    In any event, I think 95dB A to 105dB A is closer to what many would consider fairly loud. 85dBC is hardly background music level, but loud? If the music being played has a lot of deep bass, it can actually seem pretty tame.

    Ultimately this is a pretty subjective area of discussion.


    Widget
    Ok! So I'll keep 95-105dB in the back of my head the next time I rock the thing out. Might not be for awhile as I suspect my amp is injured. Don't want to kill it. Anyone have any ideas as to what is going on with my amp? The right channel's gain has to be up nearly one third of a turn more than the left channel's in order for both channels to play at the same level...

  4. #79
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    another good choice is a "L100T (3?) "

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...211#post424211
    I'm getting tired of Winning ....

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Ok! So I'll keep 95-105dB in the back of my head the next time I rock the thing out. Might not be for awhile as I suspect my amp is injured. Don't want to kill it. Anyone have any ideas as to what is going on with my amp?
    The right channel's gain has to be up nearly one third of a turn more than the left channel's in order for both channels to play at the same level...
    Some Guesses?

    (i) The bias control on either A or B ( or both ) channels may need adjusting.

    (ii) Also, something may have gone "kaflooey" ( a highly technical term ) within the negative feedback circuit of the left channel ( allowing that channel to run somewhat hotter ).
    - Removing the negative feedback is like taking the "governor" off of a purposely throttled-back engine.


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek
    If anyone can recommend an SPL app they like, that would be awesome.
    I like AudioTool quite a lot ( for Android ).

    Name:  AudioTool_Capture.PNG
Views: 70
Size:  149.0 KB

    Importantly, it allows the usage of an external mic plugged into your Android phone ( and the loading of a calibration file > if available for that mic ).


  7. #82
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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  8. #83
    Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    I like AudioTool quite a lot ( for Android ).
    I'll download this and replace the one I downloaded over the weekend, thanks for the tip!

    On that note, I went and ordered an SPL meter as I learned that my phone self limits to about 85dB A weighted or so. About the highest I could get was 85ish peak, with an average of 80ish as well. So, real meter time. As for our comfortable listening level, about 48-60dB is what we leave it at when tooling around or just enjoying the music.

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    I love this site, how I found the pair I linked earlier. Guy did not get back with me so he did not like my counter response or my offer to trade him the speakers for a Marantz 4300. Being that I'd have to spend ~$250 on replacement mids for them, I didn't really feel comfortable at $600. Especially right now with my amp and such being suspect and needing more repairs. I didn't want to end up in his shoes waiting 100+ days to sell something & break even. Parting perfectly serviceable gear out isn't my bag either so he can take that attitude and go stuff himself with it..

    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    another good choice is a "L100T (3?) "

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...211#post424211
    Those are on my radar too! Although to be honest, I'm leaning more toward the 240Ti. Based on the head to head reviews of the L100T3 vs 240Ti people give the nod to the 240Ti's. Although the slightly higher sensitivity of the T3's is appealing. I like the look of them over the 240Ti's but after visually comparing the drivers and x/o networks my novice mind says the 240Ti's have the better & more expensive build quality. Which came first, the 240's or the L100T3's?

    In any event, I found a set locally for sale with one crummy pic on Facebook Marketplace for about $750. I told myself if the 240's fell through then I'd see about those. What is a good offer for a set in excellent, then good and fair condition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Some Guesses?

    (i) The bias control on either A or B ( or both ) channels may need adjusting.

    (ii) Also, something may have gone "kaflooey" ( a highly technical term ) within the negative feedback circuit of the left channel ( allowing that channel to run somewhat hotter ).
    - Removing the negative feedback is like taking the "governor" off of a purposely throttled-back engine.

    Hrmm.. So can these issues be fixed without parts? I'm a bit worried since I wasn't able to get the VU meter repaired or find a replacement. Sounds like these issues concern electrical components like resistors and transistor type stuff which I think can still be obtained. The amp didn't have these issues before I took it in. I've also noticed that the right channel takes a good five seconds to come to life after the left channel.

  9. #84
    Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Well yesterday was a day of discovery. With the 510M wounded I didn't feel comfortable driving it hard but for science I did anyway to compare loudness levels of it vs that crummy Yamasuck receiver. Since my phone auto attenuates to about 80dB both my wife and I had to go by our ears and feel. Here's what we noticed between the two:

    1) Recone was definitely needed; did not notice popping of the woofers with either receiver. I even went with the tried and true "make 'em pop" tune; MC Hammer's U Can't Touch This. Nope. But whoa, the passive radiators were indeed moving around a lot. Still need to test my cabinets though, I figure I'll pull all four woofers, scrape away the paint clinging to the O-rings and then repaint where they mount up on the cabinets to ensure a better seal.

    2) Loudness between the two seems about even, with the nod perhaps slightly toward the Marantz.

    3) Yamasuck (V-R1105 IIRC) started to audibly distort at a setting of -8dB on the volume knob, which is what I listen for when determining max volume levels. Before, the woofers would pop, now I just hear the typical strain I associate with an amp that has started to run out of steam.

    4) Marantz 3600 preamp+510M power amp has no audible distortion when driven to point of the "PEAK" lights flickering. This is seemingly just as loud or slightly louder than the Yamasuck, but with better sound quality overall, especially bass & midrange presentation.

    5) For poop & laughter I hooked my LX44's to front B of Yamasuck and L150A's to front A. Compared the two. I definitely prefer the tweeter of the 150A to whatever is in the LX44. Surprisingly, those little speakers have excellent bass response, they just don't dig as deep as the 150's. But at lower levels, they have more "bump" than the 150A's. However, throw more amp juice at the speakers and the L150A's leave the LX44's behind.

    Here's a pic of the 3600 & 510M together. Notice the spread in the gain knobs... Hopefully that can be fixed.
    Name:  M3600 and M510m.jpg
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  10. #85
    Senior Member brutal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I've owned my L112s since they were new some 38-years ago. Never had any problem filling a room or the outdoors with all the volume I needed. They've never had anything powering them beyond a Crown D150 for all those years. Try another amp.
    I drove L112's with a Yamaha M-4 amp (spec 125WPC, usually bench testing higher to as much as 170WPC before clipping) for decades at earth shattering volumes with no ill effects. I currently run my 250Ti's with bridged Yamaha PC2002M (~700W) and have run them with bridged PC4002M (1.5KW) and they hit hard with little fatigue. The PC5002M in stereo @500WPC was a flop.

    JBL's (and most any other speaker) needs clean, distortion free power.


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