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Thread: Paragon Bass

  1. #1
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    Paragon Bass

    Hello: I am a great fan of vintage audio gear, and am fortunate to own a Paragon. It produces mesmerizing midrange but is distinctly bass-shy. My electronics include a McIntosh MCD-1100 CD player, Mac C-46 preamp, and a pair of Mac MC-30 power amps, with new or strong vintage tubes. I am planning to clean all connections with CRC QD contact cleaner. I welcome comments from people who have first-hand experience with Paragons. Is the 150-4C weak, even though it is a 15 inch speaker coupled to a folded horn? Any other suggestions to improve the bass? Thanks in advance. Roger
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    Paragon

    PS: This is an early Paragon with plywood construction, 150-4C woofers, and, of course 375 horns and 075 ring radiators. Condition is excellent and unrestored. I have not removed the woofers, but a friend did so a while back, took pictures, and found them to be in good condition. Roger

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Roger

    Beautiful system!

    I have no first hand experience with a Paragon however I have with Altec 604's. I also run E-145's in my mains which are a direct descendant of your 150's.

    If you are OK with experimentation I would give a subwoofer a try. My E-145's work and sound great with subs!

    Figure those are 40Hz woofers and that is a very small bass horn compared to say a Hartsfield that is corner loaded.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    That is a beautiful system. If you want deep bass, I agree with Rob, the horn loading of the 150-4C woofers only exacerbates the low bass problem. The only way you’ll ever get deep bass is by adding a quality subwoofer.

    Try a JL Audio e112 sub. One or two should give you the bottom end you’ve been missing and they are small enough to hide so no one needs to know.


    Widget

  5. #5
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    That is a beautiful system. If you want deep bass, I agree with Rob, the horn loading of the 150-4C woofers only exacerbates the low bass problem. The only way you’ll ever get deep bass is by adding a quality subwoofer.

    Try a JL Audio e112 sub. One or two should give you the bottom end you’ve been missing and they are small enough to hide so no one needs to know.


    Widget
    Further more,which subwoofer will best match 150-4C for hifi purpose?2245 or 2269?I don't think JL e112 is the best choise
    46 lover

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    Further more,which subwoofer will best match 150-4C for hifi purpose?2245 or 2269?I don't think JL e112 is the best choise
    What exactly are you basing your hypothesis on?


    Widget

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    I have to agree with the others, the paragon simply cannot produce very low bass by design/physics law.

    But could you please specify your impression of "bass shy" ?
    Is it just the very low bass that is missing?
    Or is it the bass in general?

    If the paragon is bass shy in the main bass (50-100hz) it might be the result of the room acoustics.
    Before purchasing quality subs for a lot of money, I suggest you try to remove your paragon a little in your room and experiment. Moving just a few inches can have a huge impact on in-room-bassperformance! Maybe this allready solves all your problems.

    If that doesn´t work and you need a sub...
    Widget allready mentioned the JL Fathom Subs. They produce a stupid amount of infrabass and sound very clean. The W7 woofers are very capable. But this is a sub that definitly works in the very low bass only. I don´t like it above 50-60hz at all. If you just need to fill in the last octave, get the JL´s. If you are aiming for a crossover of 80hz and above go and look elsewhere, like JBL 2245, BMS 18N862 etc...

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    Paragon Bass

    Thanks to all for your comments. I used Altec Flamencos for years (13.5 inch woofer) and was quite happy with their (unboosted) bass. I even have a pair of Monitor Audio RX-6’s which have a 6 inch woofer and they have bass production which is adequate for me. My Paragons are missing mid bass as well as deep bass. They sound “tinny” without considerable boost from the preamps’ equalizer. Does that help to more fully describe my problem?

    Dr.db- I will move the speakers out a bit from the rear wall and see if that helps. Roger

  9. #9
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    Another idea that comes to mind whenever someone is reporting a loss of bass:
    As silly as this sounds, but have you checked the wirring of the woofers? Interchanging the wires by mistake happens very easy, I have seen this dozens of times. With one woofer out of phase it cancels all the bass...
    I´m indicating this, as you have mentioned your friend had removed both woofers... Maybe he interchanged the wires...

  10. #10
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    What exactly are you basing your hypothesis on?


    Widget
    I once listened to JL e112 before,it is JL new production of entry-level, deep,punchy and fast,the price is very reasonable,but i think it is mainly for HT purpose
    Driver: One 12"
    Integral amplifier power: 1500W
    Crossover: Line-level, variable frequency, fourth-order
    Phase control: Continuously variable
    Dimensions: 15.5" x 16.23" x 18.39"
    Weight: 75.3 lbs.
    Price: $1900 (black ash); $2100 (piano black)
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    46 lover

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    I once listened to JL e112 before,it is JL new production of entry-level, deep,punchy and fast,the price is very reasonable,but...
    Exactly why I suggested it.

    If the Paragon is working properly it should have solid bass down to 50-60Hz, and bringing in the JL below that should work well.


    Widget

  12. #12
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    Subs

    On a budget an small the REL T7i and T9i are not to be overlooked

    Cheers

  13. #13
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    Paragon Bass

    Any other ideas why an unrestored and unmodified Paragon isn’t getting good bass into the 50 - 60 hz range? Could the crossovers be degraded through normal aging? Roger

  14. #14
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I suppose you could run your 150-4Cs direct, bypassing the crossover completely, without hurting anything. Might at least help determine if it's the networks sucking your bass out of the system.

    That being said—and as much as I love a Paragon—the ones I heard in my youth were not much more impressive in the LF range than my 030s with a D130 in a C37 box. And that's not saying much!
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  15. #15
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    Paragon Bass

    Well, BMWCCA, I didn’t know that would work without causing other problems. I will try it and see what happens. Thanks. Roger

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