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Thread: LE14A Full Range?

  1. #16
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I'm wondering why the described sound problem is attributed to the woofer and not the tweeter.

    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    I never use the attenuator on any of the speakers that have LE20's . . . .
    I'm still wondering.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  2. #17
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I'm still wondering.
    I was wondering the same thing. I mean, it could be due to the woofer, but I would look at the tweeter first.


    Widget

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I was wondering the same thing. I mean, it could be due to the woofer, but I would look at the tweeter first.

    Widget
    How would you suggest looking at the tweeter?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I'm still wondering.
    What was it about my statement regarding the attenuator that makes you wonder?

  5. #20
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    How would you suggest looking at the tweeter?
    I would run a FR curve of the system without the tweeter and then again without the woofer and see how each performs independently. Then based on that info, if I like what I see with each of them, and there is still a problem then I would try a network redesign because it is likely your problem.

    Alternatively if the woofer or the tweeter is giving me the nasty peak, I might see if a network redesign can fix it. Ultimately you need to dig into the system to see what is causing the response that you find objectionable.

    I have not worked with your exact components, but working with JBLs in general, the woofers are usually pretty well behaved and the vintage networks and many vintage JBL tweeters aren't particularly stellar.


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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I would run a FR curve of the system without the tweeter and then again without the woofer and see how each performs independently. Then based on that info, if I like what I see with each of them, and there is still a problem then I would try a network redesign because it is likely your problem.

    Alternatively if the woofer or the tweeter is giving me the nasty peak, I might see if a network redesign can fix it. Ultimately you need to dig into the system to see what is causing the response that you find objectionable.

    I have not worked with your exact components, but working with JBLs in general, the woofers are usually pretty well behaved and the vintage networks and many vintage JBL tweeters aren't particularly stellar.


    Widget
    That makes perfect sense, thank you.

  7. #22
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    I just found this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?p=93589

    More test info at the bottom of that page.

    JBL's cheapest contemporary compression driver would be a better choice for a two-way like L101. And once you abandon the potato masher, it's a whole new game.

    Relying on LE14A for midrange up to 1.5 kHz is, uhmm, "marginal," as well.

    http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te.../L101%20ts.pdf

    It's one of the systems that gave LE14A an undeserved bad rep.

    [Better than crossing to LE20 at 2 kHz, tho.... ]

  8. #23
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    I just found this...
    I imagine I’d agree with Zilch’s comments, but I assume he was saying that there was a hole in the midrange, a suck out. I wouldn’t expect that to cause a speaker to sound shouty. Speakers with a shouty character usually have a midrange peak or excessive midrange distortion.

    While not directly related to your speakers, in my experience using a midrange horn or HF horn that is to near its theoretical cut off frequency will cause a speaker to sound shouty. Many horn speakers exhibit this characteristic because larger horns take more real estate and cost more.

    I suppose your tweeter may be exhibiting a similar phenomenon as it is asked to play lower than it should. Adding a midrange driver may solve your problem, but adding a driver to an existing system is not a trivial matter.


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  9. #24
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    Re-Thinkig

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I imagine I’d agree with Zilch’s comments, but I assume he was saying that there was a hole in the midrange, a suck out. I wouldn’t expect that to cause a speaker to sound shouty. Speakers with a shouty character usually have a midrange peak or excessive midrange distortion.

    While not directly related to your speakers, in my experience using a midrange horn or HF horn that is to near its theoretical cut off frequency will cause a speaker to sound shouty. Many horn speakers exhibit this characteristic because larger horns take more real estate and cost more.

    I suppose your tweeter may be exhibiting a similar phenomenon as it is asked to play lower than it should. Adding a midrange driver may solve your problem, but adding a driver to an existing system is not a trivial matter.


    Widget
    Thank you for the thoughtful response.

    My assessment of the quality of sound of the S99's is a result of a direct comparison between them and my main speaker system, the L110 which to my ears are superb sounding speakers. After years of listening to L88, L66, L77 and S99, the L110's at first seemed way too bright. But after a year or so of trying the L110's with various amplifiers they grew on me and now there is no turning back.

    After doing some more reading about the LE14A and the various systems it was used in, I don't think that any reworking of the S99 crossover will improve them enough to replace the L110's. What I have decided to do instead is to remove the LE14A's from the cabinets and use them in larger enclosures for a three way system down the road.

    The immediate project I have in mind is to utilize the S99 cabinets and modify the baffles to accomodate a 10" 3-way system, similar to the L110. I have a pair of LE10A's that need refoaming, a pair of LE5-2 and the tweeters will be the current LE20-1. The drivers will need to be tested, ports sized and crossovers designed but hopefully with the help of this forum I'll be able to work through it.

    I appreciate all of the help so far, I have learned a little but hope to learn much more by tackling this project.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    I have a pair of S99's with LE14A and LE20-1. The woofers have new surrounds but otherwise all is original. The midrange is very "shouty" and unpleasant. Looking at the specifications and schematic of the crossover, the tweeters are crossed over at 2000 hz but it appears that the woofers run full range.

    I'm a complete novice but doing a little reading about crossovers, it seems that upper end of the woofer can be controlled with an inductor. I think this would be a nice little experiment that can easily be reversed. If this is reasonable, can someone recommend a value, or range of values for an inductor to limit the woofer to 2000 hz or so? The tweeters and woofers are 8 ohms.
    I have a pair of these. The only time I have ever had them sound "shouty" was before I chnged out the stiffened Lansalloy surrounds.

  11. #26
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by short_circutz2 View Post
    I have a pair of these. The only time I have ever had them sound "shouty" was before I chnged out the stiffened Lansalloy surrounds.
    Excellent point!


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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by short_circutz2 View Post
    I have a pair of these. The only time I have ever had them sound "shouty" was before I chnged out the stiffened Lansalloy surrounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Excellent point!


    Widget
    I'm not sure why short_circutz2 simply stating that his experience is different from mine is an excellent point. He has the same speakers, but not the same amplifier, room, ears, etc.

    I have some time this weekend and will do some experimenting. As I stated early on, I am a novice so my methods may be crude but I am open to suggestions and willing to learn.

  13. #28
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    I'm not sure why short_circutz2 simply stating....
    He brought up a possibility. Do your woofers have the original yellowed surround material or have they been updated with dark gray foam surrounds?


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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    He brought up a possibility. Do your woofers have the original yellowed surround material or have they been updated with dark gray foam surrounds?


    Widget
    I established that the woofers have new surrounds in my first post.

  15. #30
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    I established that the woofers have new surrounds in my first post.
    Sorry, missed or forgot that.

    That’s probably not the issue then.


    Widget

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