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Thread: 4430 port tuning with different drivers

  1. #16
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    When the 4430 was introduced I had the chance to compare side by side with L300. I remember well noticing that the 4430 seemed less distinct / spatial / cl;ear in that crucial vocal area.
    Don't get me wrong , 4430 is not a bad speaker but compromises were made because they had to be.
    Today's drive units have made possible in a two way what was not available back then.
    Anyway the OP has 2205's , they will play and loud at that. They will tolerate some LF Eq and probably sound dynamic and exciting. Maybe his best plan is to run as he is and save up for some 2216nd ( that will play up to the horn and deliver serious bass ).

  2. #17
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    Thank You Richard! Looks like I might owe you a beer or two... and 2235's are in my future, might as well do it right.

    I have another question if you don't mind.

    I have to find a pair of 2235's... I've looked locally with no luck, didn't see any frames to get reconed either. So I think I'll go back to the plan of getting my 2205A's reconed to 2235's. You suggested that here and in this thread as well; http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...p/t-39537.html

    But there might a problem... I'm lucky enough to have an authorized JBL repair center 15 minutes away. I talked to them about reconing and they can do it, but they said (if I understood him correctly) there were some older 2205A's that had a narrower voice coil gap that wouldn't accept the 2235 voice coil, something about an attempt at higher efficiency. He said the top plate on some of these was gold in color instead of silver, mine are gold. I assume mine are older as the serial numbers are only 4 digits, (3357 and 3364). The tech said he would have to remove the cones to find out for sure. I was hoping the serial numbers would help with getting this info before that. Obviously I don't want to destroy two perfectly good speakers if I don't have to.

    I'm not doubting him, but by any chance do know anything about this? I can start a new thread if necessary.

    Thanks again.
    Gary

  3. #18
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Here look at this it will help

    Rob
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    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  4. #19
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    Uh Oh... gold top plate (actually yellow/green), real cork gasket, low serial number.......

    50/50 odds... or less... dang it!!!

    Anybody have a pair of 2225/2234/2235 frames for sale??

  5. #20
    Senior Member turnitdown's Avatar
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    I have twp 2234s and, separately, two mass rings. $4 dollars in dust caps and you can convert them to 2235s, though I would run them without and find out whether you want to leave them that way, or convert them. They were re-foamed with Rick Cobb examples two years ago.

    From experience, if space is an issue, you can get 4430 bass from an LE14 in 4 cu.ft.

  6. #21
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    To Speakerdave:

    Thanks for the interesting post. RE 2205 "They are a unique driver ... they have somewhat more relaxed suspension, and some people like the way they make bass." The only enclosures I've ever seen where the 2205 is specified by JBL are mostly the older 45 series rear/front loaded horns and, to a lesser extent, in vented cabs # 4508 and EN5 (1980 Catalog). Maybe their limited number of specified boxes, compared to successor 2225, is what made them sort of a "unique driver" as you say. In any case, I certainly happen to be one of those 2205 sound fan (fast & dynamic), even if not designed for VLF. I'm not sure in between which drivers it falls but your summary classification seems to make sense.

    RE: "2235's don't come up for sale often" "Have them reconed with genuine 2235 kits". But on the other hand, in another thread, I remember someone mentioned in the past original recone kits for 2235 were getting more difficult to find.. Has the situation suddenly improved? Seems like a catch 22 for Gary? Ken's reproduction cones then?

    To kay:

    My 4430 vent dimensions were from Drew Daniels own Notes on porting, he's a reliable JBL source I think, and confirmed by Chas. JBL has custom size vents made for them by a supplier and they're not for sale as indicated on all Tech Manual sheets I've yet seen...

    RE: "is there a way to calculate the correct length for 4"/102mm tubes?"
    Seems I previously posted for you, in another thread, the vent length formula given by Bullock and Dickason. If need be, let me know I'll ask Winspeakerz to calculate it for you...

    To Macaroonie:

    Interesting actual user note about the 2235, not only the flowers but also a weakness, I appreciate that. Though I know its not meant to be this way by you with the mention of 2234, but your 2235 experience could be an indirect argument in favor of giving a try to the 2205 in Gary's box, at least temporarily.

    RE: "Anyway the OP has 2205's , they will play and loud at that. They will tolerate some LF Eq and probably sound dynamic and exciting. Maybe his best plan is to run as he is". Well, that's exactly what I had in mind too.

    With all due respect, I think some of my collegues have lost sight of the original issue from poster: "In the mean time, I think I'll build the cabinets to 4430 specs and if I don't have the 2235's by the time I'm done I'll drop the 2205's in temporarily. Would lengthening or shortening the ports improve frequency response?"

    This is what I responded to. Gary understands the 2235 issue (posts # 3 & 4), but in the meantime he has only 2205s, therefore I try to help him make something acceptable, including different options, with what he has instead of what he doesn't, though Dave's route with 2225 frames, and Macaroonie's user comments, may end-up giving something worthwhile.

    To Gary:

    Don't worry about the beers, as I write this I'm already having a cold Coors light... or two in fact!

    I'm not familiar with the gold color issue in early 2205. The repair shop being authorized JBL, then they should know what they're talking about, so initially I would trust them. Then the question comes down to are you willing to scrap your 2205 cones just to know? And if the answer is negative for 2235s then you have no working drivers left... I wouldn't take that risk, specially if the 2205s are nice, but rather go with Dave's suggested way of getting frames, and keep/use the 2205 in the mean time...

    As shown in my simulations, you can still make your box for the future woofer and pending you getting it then use the woofers on-hand with the info modeled, therefore not wasting precious time waiting for drivers... Regards to all,

    Richard

  7. #22
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-J...QAAOSwUBZcwjKa

    Somewhere in the depths of this forum there was a discussion regarding the merits or otherwise of the mass ring vs. mass loading the cone itself. This then takes you down the rabbithole of what exactly is the formulation of the Aquaplas used by subsequent JBL low frequency drivers. You can see it on the back of cones , kinda lumpy looking.
    One of the other aspects of the mass ring is that it can whack the pole piece if over driven.

  8. #23
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    Wrt availability of genuine C8R2235 kits: We can still buy them here in Germany, albeit at € 320 per item !

    Best regards!

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