Driver choice for 4641 cabinet - 2241H or 2242H or 2245H, what are the pros/cons?

[Cheapdrinks]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I was told you guys are the best people to ask for advice. I've been given a JBL 4641 cabinet (8 cubic ft, single port tuned to 25hz I think) with no driver and am looking for advice on which woofer to choose. The stock driver is a 2241H however I was hoping to get some insight on some other possible choices before I make the purchase or if the original is the best option. I've searched through this forum and tried to read as many threads as possible but a lot of the information is in response to different cabinet sizes and some of it is beyond my technical understanding as i'm just a home audio enthusiast so I was hoping for some pretty basic advice.

Main usage will be for music with occasional home theatre use. I would prefer it to perform at it's best for music with less focus on it being able to reach as low as possible for movies however if there is one which strikes a good balance between the two that would also be worth consideration. I also wouldn't mind knowing for reference which one you would recommend for home theatre use just in-case I decide to go down that path however at this stage the plan is for it to go into my 2 channel music set up. I plan on powering it with a Behringer NU1000DSP which will hopefully handle the eq competently enough. Crossover will be handled by a minidsp to split it up from my preamp between my two power amps. The cabinet is also missing the binding posts so i'm going to install a neutrik speakon input to make connecting to the amp easier. After reading as many posts as I could I think i've narrowed down the best options to the 2241, the 2242 and the 2245. Which of these would you go for and are there any choices which I haven't come across yet worth considering?

One other thing I wanted to ask was about the dampening material used inside. The cabinet I have has had all of the felt/foam removed from the internal walls so I need to replace that too, what material is a good choice as i'm not sure what was originally in there.

Thanks very much for any help!

[sguttag]

If it were me, I'd use the 2242H (turns it into a 4645C). If you look up the cutsheets on both the 4641 and the 4645C you'll see the response differences. The 2242 handles more power than the 2241 too but that might be secondary for you in your application.

As for fiberglass. You don't need to go overboard with it. I honestly forget what surfaces of that box are covered (if any). If covered, it will be with 1". The box tuning frequency is 22Hz, as I recall.

[Mr. Widget]

If it were me, I'd use the 2242H...

Since primary use is for music, I would use the 2245, unless very high playback levels are desired, the 2245 works well for HT use as well and just sounds better.


Widget

[HCSGuy]

2245 would be good, or take your time and find a 2243, which is a 2242 built for home use (goes lower, but doesn't play as loud and is 1db less efficient). There's a seller on Ebay with two 2243HPL's available, but he's in Cypress Good luck getting your money back when they arrive with cracked frames. The shipping also seems too cheap.

[gasfan]

2245 would be good, or take your time and find a 2243, which is a 2242 built for home use (goes lower, but doesn't play as loud and is 1db less efficient). There's a seller on Ebay with two 2243HPL's available, but he's in Cypress Good luck getting your money back when they arrive with cracked frames. The shipping also seems too cheap.

Would a 2269 work?

[Cheapdrinks]

2245 would be good, or take your time and find a 2243

There's a guy in Germany selling 2 for 400 euro, I wonder if he would sell one individually I might shoot him a message. Yeah i forgot to mention that high output levels are not really required, I live close to neighbours at the moment and rarely exceed 90db during my listening sessions, usually closer to 80. The consensus so far seems to be that the 2245 is a good choice for my needs, would the 2243 match it on musicality grounds but be also able to dip a bit lower at the expense of some efficiency?

[1audiohack]

I don’t think the 2243 was designed for domestic use. It was used in the Sound Power series I believe.

Barry.

[FE3T]

2245 would be good, or take your time and find a 2243, which is a 2242 built for home use (goes lower, but doesn't play as loud and is 1db less efficient). There's a seller on Ebay with two 2243HPL's available, but he's in Cypress Good luck getting your money back when they arrive with cracked frames. The shipping also seems too cheap.

I cant really see how a 2243H can be more suitable for home use, it has far less X max and very low QTS which even with a 30hz FS makes it very inefficient in the 20-80hz area in a regular ported box.

To me it seems more like a horn driver or a maximum output mid woofer than a home subwoofer (basically a larger version of the 2227H)

For a 8cuft box tuned to 25-26hz I would chose a 2245H, and that's what I did. (got myself a pair of baskets and a couple of oem recone kits before they vent vapor ware)


Ps the specs on the 2243H are aviable on this site in the driver section.

[toddalin]

Pros and cons
2241H is by far the cheapest and most readily available. 2245..., not so much.
2241 goes lower than 2242. Forget watts, that's not an issue here.
2245 will require a refoam every 10-20 years.
2245 is better for a subwoofer, but a 2241 sounds more like a bass guitar should sound (texture) in a multi-way system.

BTW, I would seriously be considering the 2269 if available.

[Earl K]

Not that anyone really noticed, but G.T. let it be known many years back, ( through his spoke-person of the time ) that the 2241H was a laudable substitute for the hard-to-get 2245H.

Running some sims shows that to be true. Additionally, one has some recent testimonials ( like Todds ) to savour.

On the same subject ( sort-of ), G.T also mentioned the undiscovered HiFi capabilities of the roundly ignored 2204H.

[sguttag]

Pros and cons
2241H is by far the cheapest and most readily available. 2245..., not so much.
2241 goes lower than 2242. Forget watts, that's not an issue here.
2245 will require a refoam every 10-20 years.
2245 is better for a subwoofer, but a 2241 sounds more like a bass guitar should sound (texture) in a multi-way system.

BTW, I would seriously be considering the 2269 if available.

I have not found that the 2241 goes lower than the 2242 and quite the opposite. I've used quite a bit of both and the 4645C routinely out performs the 4641 and the only difference is the driver...same box, same tuning.

Neither go as deep as the 2245, natch, though the 2245 doesn't have the power of the others. I'd agree that, for home use, the 2245 would be the one to seek. I also agree that the 2269 is worth considering though I think it should be given a box worthy of it. I have a genuine B460 (original owner) and this past year built a pair of SUB18 semi-clones (a little bit bigger, play a little bit deeper). The 2269 is just all kinds of awesome if one has the funds and the power to feed it (it isn't efficient).

[toddalin]

I have not found that the 2241 goes lower than the 2242 and quite the opposite. I've used quite a bit of both and the 4645C routinely out performs the 4641 and the only difference is the driver...same box, same tuning.

Well there you go.

Requires a different box and different tuning to take advantage of its capabilities. WinISD results are included!

Red is 2245H, Green is 2241H and White is 2242H. Speaks for itself.

[Cheapdrinks]

Sorry everyone, I went away for a week over Easter and only just got back. I'm just going through all the new comments now, thanks again for all the input and discussion, you guys really know your JBL drivers wow.

Had a couple more questions you might be able to answer; Firstly, what sort of crossover frequency would you recommend for this once I get it all put together? As it was going to be used as a domestic use subwoofer I was thinking somewhere around 80-120hz but was wondering if you recommend going a bit higher as it would probably perform better in the mid bass than my current speakers. It will be going into a 2 channel music set up which at the moment consists of some Infinity 6 Kappas powered by a TA-N80ES power amp. As I said before i'm going to order a minidsp to perform room correction and split the frequency range between the TA-N80ES and the iNuke/JBL sub. Haven't decided though if it would be better to EQ the sub from the minidsp as well or from the iNuke's onboard dsp, probably the minidsp I suppose.

For box lining I was thinking of buying some of this stuff which seems like it will be reasonably good, does that seem like a decent choice? Also something else I noticed is that the area behind the port tube is painted black and if I use the staple marks in the wood as a guide, it doesn't seem like there was ever any damping material attached there directly behind the tube. Is there a reason for this, should I leave that area bare? Was also wondering if the cab should be stuffed with any loose material or if just damping the internal walls is enough/how it is supposed to be.

Pros and cons
BTW, I would seriously be considering the 2269 if available.

I might have to check the physical measurements on the 2269 to see if it would fit as there is some bracing midway through the cabinet which may get in the way of this driver as it's very deep but the taper might be enough for it to fit. I think it may be a little out of my price range though unfortunately.

I think at this point i'm probably going to hit up HCSGuy for one of his 2245's in a few weeks when I can spare the cash (just got hit with $1200 at the dentist for a couple of fillings which was annoying and set me back a little)

OK, using JBLs specs of 225 liter box tuned to 25 Hz. But this is probably erroneous and they should have specified the vent dimensions to get the actual tuning.

The vent dimensions on my 4641 cab are 18cm diameter with a depth of 32cm if that helps

[toddalin]

Sorry everyone, I went away for a week over Easter and only just got back. I'm just going through all the new comments now, thanks again for all the input and discussion, you guys really know your JBL drivers wow.

Had a couple more questions you might be able to answer; Firstly, what sort of crossover frequency would you recommend for this once I get it all put together? As it was going to be used as a domestic use subwoofer I was thinking somewhere around 80-120hz but was wondering if you recommend going a bit higher as it would probably perform better in the mid bass than my current speakers. It will be going into a 2 channel music set up which at the moment consists of some Infinity 6 Kappas powered by a TA-N80ES power amp. As I said before i'm going to order a minidsp to perform room correction and split the frequency range between the TA-N80ES and the iNuke/JBL sub. Haven't decided though if it would be better to EQ the sub from the minidsp as well or from the iNuke's onboard dsp, probably the minidsp I suppose.

For box lining I was thinking of buying some of this stuff which seems like it will be reasonably good, does that seem like a decent choice? Also something else I noticed is that the area behind the port tube is painted black and if I use the staple marks in the wood as a guide, it doesn't seem like there was ever any damping material attached there directly behind the tube. Is there a reason for this, should I leave that area bare? Was also wondering if the cab should be stuffed with any loose material or if just damping the internal walls is enough/how it is supposed to be.




I might have to check the physical measurements on the 2269 to see if it would fit as there is some bracing midway through the cabinet which may get in the way of this driver as it's very deep but the taper might be enough for it to fit. I think it may be a little out of my price range though unfortunately.

I think at this point i'm probably going to hit up HCSGuy for one of his 2245's in a few weeks when I can spare the cash (just got hit with $1200 at the dentist for a couple of fillings which was annoying and set me back a little)




The vent dimensions on my 4641 cab are 18cm diameter with a depth of 32cm if that helps

According to WinISD the box is tuned to 27.15 Hz. Plots are below with 2241H in green and 2242H in white.

One needs to recognize that the plots are based on the roll-off from the average signal, overlaid upon each other, and do not consider that the 2242H is ~3 dB louder, and would still be 3 dB louder at 27 Hz (where the plot lines cross) even though it is further rolled-off along it's journey to this point relative to the 2241H. Subjectively, this would make the 2242H stronger at 27 Hz when compared in a "heads up" competition with the 2241H.

However if you've settled on 2245s, in this case it is a moot point.

[toddalin]

BTW, there is another issue that need to be addressed and has been totally ignored. That is, what are the other drivers to be used?

The 2242 is so efficient that you will need to use it with some type of horn be it a "woofer" horn or driver horn. If you try to use a simple cone midrange, you will be hard pressed to find one that will keep up with the 2242. The 2251H 10" (with no horn enclosure as intended) barely keeps up with the 2241H.

In fact, I had the 2251 tuned nice and flat, but it didn't have the volume (dB) to keep up with the 2241 and I had to take a different tact in redoing the crossovers to let them sing louder. Know that you don't want to put a resistor in series with your woofer to knock down its dB (screws with the damping), and the best you'll do is to put a 20 ohm high wattage, non-inductive resistor across the woofer terminals to reduce the volume ~1-2 dB.