Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Need help tuning 2202h

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    26

    Need help tuning 2202h

    Hello, I am having a pair of boxes made for the 2202h, for now I have settled for 4 cubic feet for each driver, I would like to crossover the 2202 to a 2245.
    Thank you

  2. #2
    Senior Member jbl4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    McHenry IL
    Posts
    276
    Hello back at you. What is the crossover frequency you are going to use between the 2202 and the 2245. In the 4350 and 4355 models the 2202 crossed over at 250 and 290hz. The enclosure was under 2cu ft and not ported. The 2202 does not play well at low frequency only 3.5mm xmax

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    26
    I was thinking about 120 Hz, do you think would work?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Ashland, MA
    Posts
    883
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandor the hun View Post
    I was thinking about 120 Hz, do you think would work?
    For home use, 120 is okay, though I definitely think you're oversizing the box and venting it, given that you have a true woofer beneath, is a waste that only serves to make the crossover harder to tune. The JBL design points were well selected and I wouldn't want to really change them.

  5. #5
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    594
    Hi Sandor,

    In case you are not convinced yet.

    Though this may rain on your project, JBL4ever is correct. Crossover frequencies: 4350b 250 hz and 4355 290 hz and box volumes under 2 cu.ft.

    4350B: 2202H in sealed subchamber of 1.6 cu.ft, response - 2 db @ 300 hz (Winspeakerz software)

    4355: 2202H in sealed subchamber of 1.7 cu.ft., response same but for a hair worth difference

    The very low driver Qts (0.16) and pretty small Vas of 89 L. make it difficult to design a box that will produce some bass worthy of the name. Badman is also correct about oversizing the box and venting it.

    In trying to help you, last night I modeled quickly about 10 different boxes (sealed and vented) in the 2 to 4 cu.ft. range (2202H spec sheet says recommended enclosure volume2-4 cu.ft.!). None of them looked good or even acceptable. Getting driver to produce some good ouput at 120 hz or so doesn't seem to be a reasonable expectation, as driver tech sheet also shows at about 100 hz output is down about 10 db in sealed box. Regards,

    Richard

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    26
    Thank you all, the boxs are not cut yet so I have room for change. I never realized that the 2202 had such low end performance. Any ideas on crossing the 2245 @ 250 hz? Good, bad ? I am trying to use parts I have on hand and I think the 2245 and the 2202 might work out.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandor the hun View Post
    Thank you all, the boxs are not cut yet so I have room for change. I never realized that the 2202 had such low end performance. Any ideas on crossing the 2245 @ 250 hz? Good, bad ? I am trying to use parts I have on hand and I think the 2245 and the 2202 might work out.

    Use 250 hertz. It will work fine.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Jättendal (Giant Valley), Sweden
    Posts
    736
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandor the hun View Post
    Thank you all, the boxs are not cut yet so I have room for change. I never realized that the 2202 had such low end performance. Any ideas on crossing the 2245 @ 250 hz? Good, bad ? I am trying to use parts I have on hand and I think the 2245 and the 2202 might work out.
    Depends on the 2245 boxes, if you get higer order resonances through the ports below 250 it will sound really bad.

    About 250 is probably very good because you can integrate the baffle step adjustment into the filter. http://sound.whsites.net/bafflestep.htm

  9. #9
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    594
    Hi Sandor,

    Personnaly, I'd be tempted to use 300 hz or so X-over to "relieve" a bit more the 2202 from low end duties, and this also pretty much corresponds to what JBL used in the little more recent 4355 (290 hz) VS 4350B (250 hz).

    Based on JBL's 2245H response curve, it shows the woofer would start getting directional at 500 hz or so. Then crossing over at 300 hz would still minimize getting into that issue, with the 2202 taking over at that point.

    Also, based on my modelings, you gain 1 db more output from 2202 when crossing over at 300 hz VS 250 hz (a small bonus) for giving the driver that small additional frequency relief ( -3 db @ 250 hz VS -2 db @ 300 hz).

    Going a little further up could give you a little more 2202 output which, on the other hand, may not be needed considering the 2202 is already 4 db more sensitive than 2245, therefore may have to pad the 2202 anyway.... Regards,

    Richard

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ingolstadt in Germany
    Posts
    456

    Thiele Alignments 3 and 4

    Why don't you start with Thiele alignments 3 and 4 and interpolate between the two? You will need to adjust Qt. For this you need to take into account the crossover inductor's DC resistance of the 2202's lowpass.

    I have explained that several times in the past, but I don't find the posts.

    ruediger

  11. #11
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    594
    Hi Ruediger,

    RE: Thiele Alignments 3 and 4

    I do remember that you have mentioned these alignments several times in the past.

    But there's an important issue with older Thiele alignments that keeps me, and possibly others, away from them, as explained by Bullock:

    "I will not provide Thiele alignments for reasons to be made clear below." (...) "In terms of QL we may regard Thiele alignments as Small alignments when QL = infinite; this, however, is an ideal value which cannot be realized in practice. For this reason I decided not to include a table of Thiele alignments." (p. 6-7)

    So Thiele's alignments would assume lossless enclosures! which isn't really useful considering in real life almost every box has losses. I can't remember having seen yet the absolute perfect box, even JBL models them with the standard QL 7, therefore with box losses.

    Most speaker design softwares also use a QL 7 number, though Win ISD Pro uses QL 10 which can be changed in the sofware to the more generally accepted QL 7. Small, Bullock and Leach indicated QL is generally from 5 to 10 (again with losses), with tendency for small boxes near 10, medium size near 7 and large size closer to 5.

    Regards,

    Richard

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,127
    The 2202 is a mid range driver not a mid bass driver.

    In the diy space you can fudge the driver to an extent.

    On the commercial systems like the 4350 Jbl had to manage power handling and distortion so they restricted the bandwidth of the 2202. The 2202 is quite a competent driver in the 250-1100 hertz range. The 2245 can work up to 250-300 hertz with any issues. Port resonance is not an issue.

    If you prefer a lower crossover point like 80-120 hertz consider the 2206 or an LE14H which can work in compact enclosures.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 2202h
    By Robh3606 in forum Pro Components
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-01-2010, 07:04 PM
  2. What to do with 2435 and 2202H ?
    By Guru in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 09-17-2008, 01:11 AM
  3. Reconing 2202H?
    By Electric Banana in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-20-2007, 08:16 PM
  4. 2202H
    By 4313B in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-22-2005, 01:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •