Altec Driver Parameters?

[Drugolf]

So I diving into WINIsd of the first time, trying to learn it.

Can't go very far it seems without driver parameters. What is the best source for known driver parameters? Is there a master list somewhere that has been compiled. There seems to only be a couple Altec drivers listed in the native driver folder on WINIsd.

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

BTW I am using 0.7.0.950 release.

Thanks!

PS - Too bad most of the Youtube tutorials for WINIsd are for car subwoofer applications.

[RMC]

Hi Drugolf,

There is no one single source where one will find everything, sniff. It would be too easy...

You can try:

GPA web site

alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net

You should be able to find some on the above two sites, maybe some on lansing heritage also.

As for learning Win ISD I suggest you read the help files to learn how it works, you should be OK after that.

I have a few driver databases, so if you can't find info for one driver let me know MAYBE I have it somewhere...
Regards,

Richard

[Chas]

If you’re looking for Altec 414 T/S parameters, I never had any luck getting them. Maybe Earl has?

[Drugolf]

If you’re looking for Altec 414 T/S parameters, I never had any luck getting them. Maybe Earl has?

I think he did use them for a 414Z. Let's hope he sees this and chimes in as he doesn't take PM's.

[Drugolf]

Oops, I posted this in another thread too but probably should go here as a follow-up.

SO here is my initial Winisd graph for a Malibu configuration box. There are two of the 411A woofers and using the plans it appears that the cabinet volume is 7.5 Cf. I took that down to 6.8 for loss for bracing drivers etc.

Sealed box. .707 Max Flat amplitude response alignment.

Does this appear as it should? What is it telling me?

[more10]

Hi Drugolf,

alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net
Richard

http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet...ele-Small.html

[Drugolf]

http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet...ele-Small.html

WELL HERE WE GO! Home Run by more10. This should be pinned somewhere, no?

Thanks man!

[RMC]

Hi Drugolf,

Sorry for the driver size, my mistake then. Since data sheet didn't give nominal woofer size I guess I concluded too quickly from its 15 5/16" diameter and 14 3/16" mounting hole it would be a 15".

An unusually large 12" though VS my two pairs of 12s having diameters of 12"+ and mounting holes of 11"+ ...

Since these woofers are oversized compared to usual 12 inchers, two > 4" vents may be more appropriate.

BTW Though EBP and Altec may indicate or suggest that 411 is more suitable for sealed box, it does not mean it is automatically unsuitable for vented box use. Regards,

Richard

[Drugolf]

Thanks RMC. I did not adjust Ql for this initial effort/test on my part. But I get what you explained earlier and wen I actually know I am doing this correctly otherwise, I will make the adjustment.

EarlK isn't comfortable with my results so he is checking on his end for me.

[Drugolf]

Hi Drugolf,

There is no one single source where one will find everything, sniff. It would be too easy...

You can try:

GPA web site

alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net

You should be able to find some on the above two sites, maybe some on lansing heritage also.

As for learning Win ISD I suggest you read the help files to learn how it works, you should be OK after that.

I have a few driver databases, so if you can't find info for one driver let me know MAYBE I have it somewhere...
Regards,

Richard

Gosh, I guess I thought I might have been missing a database in my initial quest, but apparently not. Like you say, I was thinking it would have been easy enough by now as a collective. Funny.

I have been seeing info here and there as you suggest.

[RMC]

Hi Drugolf,

Your Vented box modeled in the other thread is tuned too high giving a quite bumby LF response: + 4.5 db @ 75 hz which may not be desirable sound wise.

By tuning it lower you WILL reduce that LF peak and probably reach a little further into deep bass than the sealed box.

RE: "Tuning Freq on the green vented line I adjusted to 40 (see I remember Earl)."


As far as I recall Earl didn't say one must not tune below 40 hz, period. If I'm right he said that an Fs 40 hz driver should not be tuned lower than Fs, 40 hz in the case mentioned earlier regarding another woofer.

However, here the data you entered in Win ISD shows the 411 driver has an Fs of 18 hz (confirmed by the spec sheet I have). Therefore you are NOT limited here by the "40 hz tuning rule" with the 411 woofer, but rather by the "18 hz tuning rule". I would try again with a tuning frequency in the 30-35 hz or so range to try to get a flatter LF response from the box. Doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but I usually try to stay within one db or so...

Though Altec's recommended enclosure (4.5-8 cu.ft.) is sealed box, driver having EBP at 48.7, it can still be used in a vented box to benefit from vent(s) LF distortion reduction. As indicated by Eminence in "Understanding Loudspeaker Data" re driver EBP: "This is merely a starting point. Many well-designed systems have violated this rule of thumb! Qts should also be considered." And here the Qts you entered in Win ISD for 411 is 0.33, certainly not an "out in the field" number for a vented box, in fact many with such Qts number are loaded in vented.

Finally, a single 4" port isn't a reasonable assumption for a TWO 15" woofer box. TWO 5" dia. min. ports would definitely be a better choice as long as length fits properly in the enclosure, if not you bend the vents or try just a bit smaller diameter ( 4.875, 4.75 or 4.5) and see where it leads to length wise... Regards,

Richard

[Drugolf]

Hi Drugolf,

Your Vented box modeled in the other thread is tuned too high giving a quite bumby LF response: + 4.5 db @ 75 hz which may not be desirable sound wise.

By tuning it lower you WILL reduce that LF peak and probably reach a little further into deep bass than the sealed box.

RE: "Tuning Freq on the green vented line I adjusted to 40 (see I remember Earl)."


As far as I recall Earl didn't say one must not tune below 40 hz, period. If I'm right he said that an Fs 40 hz driver should not be tuned lower than Fs, 40 hz in the case mentioned earlier regarding another woofer.

However, here the data you entered in Win ISD shows the 411 driver has an Fs of 18 hz (confirmed by the spec sheet I have). Therefore you are NOT limited here by the "40 hz tuning rule" with the 411 woofer, but rather by the "18 hz tuning rule". I would try again with a tuning frequency in the 30-35 hz or so range to try to get a flatter LF response from the box. Doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but I usually try to stay within one db or so...

Though Altec's recommended enclosure (4.5-8 cu.ft.) is sealed box, driver having EBP at 48.7, it can still be used in a vented box to benefit from vent(s) LF distortion reduction. As indicated by Eminence in "Understanding Loudspeaker Data" re driver EBP: "This is merely a starting point. Many well-designed systems have violated this rule of thumb! Qts should also be considered." And here the Qts you entered in Win ISD for 411 is 0.33, certainly not an "out in the field" number for a vented box, in fact many with such Qts number are loaded in vented.

Finally, a single 4" port isn't a reasonable assumption for a TWO 15" woofer box. TWO 5" dia. min. ports would definitely be a better choice as long as length fits properly in the enclosure, if not you bend the vents or try just a bit smaller diameter ( 4.875, 4.75 or 4.5) and see where it leads to length wise... Regards,

Richard

Thanks Richard. I see what you are saying there with teh Fs for the 411. I didn't catch that it was down that low. I will carry on with doing some modeling as I determine some potential builds with these particular drivers. I am expanding on that aspect over in my other VOTT thread.

Just a FYI, the 411A is 12"

[Earl K]

Thanks Richard. I see what you are saying there with teh Fs for the 411. I didn't catch that it was down that low. I will carry on with doing some modeling as I determine some potential builds with these particular drivers. I am expanding on that aspect over in my other VOTT thread.

Just a FYI, the 411A is 12"

The 411-8a is very much a 15" woofer ( by all definitions ).

411-pdf from GPA

Perhaps you're thinking about the Altec 412 ?

[RMC]

Hi Chas,

I have the TS for Altec 414 8C and 8E. Are these the ones sought? Let me know, I'll be back later no time now gotta go...

Richard

[RMC]

Hi Drugolf,

Congratulations, your first LF modeling! A few general comments.

So what you have as box overvolume for loss, drivers and bracing for a 6.8 cu. ft. enclosure is 10%, not a whole lot for that size, probably the bare minimum. Which QL number did you use for modeling? Default?

Win ISD default response is max flat amplitude. But you are not obliged to stick with that you can modify LF response, in this sealed box case, by changing cab volume: larger = more dropping LF and smaller = flatter LF.

It does look like a max flat response babana shaped, some like some don't, with a typical sealed box roll-off.

To me it appears like a too large box generating an early roll-off response, and to someone else it could mean great because he had intended to place the box at the junction of 2 or 3 boundaries therefore raising the low frequency output. But I'm not familiar with the Malibu configuration...

You decide what suits your expectations vs use and box placement. However, you can possibly do better LF wise with a vented box (or smaller sealed volume without being max flat?).

Any reason (e.g. driver Qts?) why you have not modeled it as a vented box? Regards,

Richard