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  1. #1
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    Question Power Amps for JBL 4675C

    Hello, this is my first post on this forum, hopefully you can help me

    I recently bought a pair of used JBL 4675C (https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/4675c.pdf) and right now they are hooked up to a Pionner A-757 integrated amp. Although I am very happy with the sounds my system is producing I think I can improve it even further.

    Id like to biamp and already got the JBL M553 active crossover to do so, but Id like to know what amps I should use. Of course I am going to remove the passive crossover from the speakers.

    The system is used for hi-fi porpuses and loudness is not important (unless I want the neighbours to kill me ).

    So what should I use and how much better will the sound get? PA-amps maybe?

    Thank you very much in advance

  2. #2
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    There is nothing special about "PA" amps. In fact, home amps tend to be more esoteric in nature, when it comes to sound. In the professional world, reliability, serviceability, speed of installation/replacement are key factors in the design (and, of course, cost).

    The 4675C was a staple of the cinema industry (and its lower suffix letters) for decades. It has been driven by most every brand of amplifiers you can think of. If there is a particular amplifier brand you like, use it. A good amp is a good amp. Its intended market should not be a factor in your choice other than your personal ease of use and potential noise (including noise for cooling...in professional areas, often ambient noise is not an issue and again, in the name of reliability, they may be noisier than anything destined for the home market). Since you want to bi-amp, you'll need 4 channels of whatever you seek.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    What's your budget??
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    sguttag, thanks for your opinion! Great to know these speakers arent too selective when it comes to amp choice. Just one more question: How much power do I need to get the best out of the speakers? Ive heard people say that even at low levels you can make great use of a 300W+ amp. Is that true or a waste of money?

    BMWCCA, I could spend about 1000€, so 500€ for each amp and I want to buy used gear.

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    Those are quite efficient speakers 101dB 1w/1m. Personally, I don't think you need a big amp at all for normal listening levels. Many cinemas drove them with 50W-100W. For the home, I couldn't imagine driving them with anything near 300W.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    For the home, I couldn't imagine driving them with anything near 300W.
    What, you can’t imagine 125 dB at a meter?


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    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    Those are quite efficient speakers 101dB 1w/1m. Personally, I don't think you need a big amp at all for normal listening levels. Many cinemas drove them with 50W-100W. For the home, I couldn't imagine driving them with anything near 300W.
    I think even 300W is not so enough for two 15'' woofers,not to mention 50W-100W
    46 lover

  8. #8
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    besser = better
    irritated = annoyed or possibly upset.

    Whereas people come from all over the globe, there probably isn't a need to dive into one's broken use of a language when the intent seems self-explanatory based on context. Naturally, I'm fortunate that this forum uses English as its language (it is the one that I'm best at, though far from perfect despite a lifetime of usage).

    "don't driver your truck with a lawn mower engine"

    That is a poor analogy. The truck weighs a lot and a lawnmower engine doesn't have the horsepower to drive it. In the case of the speaker, the sensitivity tells us how hard it is to drive. Compared to the typical home speaker, the 4675 is much easier to drive and needs less power to achieve the same level as less-efficient speakers.

    To keep with your car analogy, you don't drop a Formula 1 engine into your car you drive to work on normal roads. You can, I suppose, but you'd never take advantage of it...you'd just have to pay for it.

    "
    a sub like Array 1500 have a built in 1kw amp, why should you use 1/10 of this with 2242"

    It all depends on the usage and desired SPL. The 2242 portion allows a particular frequency response with a given cabinet and based on those two factors plus room size and desired SPL, you get to amplifier size needed to achieve those. If a room is 3-4m long and one is listening to music, you just don't need that much power.

    Keeping with analogies, if your needs are that you are going to drink 2-cups of water in any meal, there is no good reason to get a full 1-gallon jug each time.

    "
    but used for higher SPL and/or hometheater, it will be too litle[sic]"

    Ah ha! Now you have changed the equation a bit. We've moved from music speakers (left/right) to home theatre subwoofer. Rather than just an augmentation to a normal speaker, the cinema subwoofer is its own channel with a potential 10dB more level. So now, the potential for the subwoofer is to play at about 112dBc (presuming reference level volume is set) in the pass band (120Hz and below). Coming off of that will be whatever room-gain you have and boundary conditions that might put the subwoofer in a more efficient circumstance. But yes, if the need was for a cinema-subwoofer, I would indeed go up on power. And, true to form, for my own home theatre were we built SUB 18 clones (a little larger) I'm indeed providing them with thousands of watts. In fact, despite being in the USA (normally 120VAC), that amp will be powered by 240VAC (home power) to keep the current down and avoid tripping any circuit protection (plus that balances out the power to the panel well). The 2269 is relatively inefficient driver but it plays quite deep and handles lots of power. I have two of them in the system for a room that is about 4m deep. They will be on the floor, in a baffle wall and near the sidewalls of the room.

    "my experince [sic] is very often a high power amp will have better Control than a smaller Power amp"

    Our experiences are not the same.




  9. #9
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    besser = better
    irritated = annoyed or possibly upset.

    Whereas people come from all over the globe, there probably isn't a need to dive into one's broken use of a language when the intent seems self-explanatory based on context. Naturally, I'm fortunate that this forum uses English as its language (it is the one that I'm best at, though far from perfect despite a lifetime of usage).

    "don't driver your truck with a lawn mower engine"

    That is a poor analogy. The truck weighs a lot and a lawnmower engine doesn't have the horsepower to drive it. In the case of the speaker, the sensitivity tells us how hard it is to drive. Compared to the typical home speaker, the 4675 is much easier to drive and needs less power to achieve the same level as less-efficient speakers.

    To keep with your car analogy, you don't drop a Formula 1 engine into your car you drive to work on normal roads. You can, I suppose, but you'd never take advantage of it...you'd just have to pay for it.

    "
    a sub like Array 1500 have a built in 1kw amp, why should you use 1/10 of this with 2242"

    It all depends on the usage and desired SPL. The 2242 portion allows a particular frequency response with a given cabinet and based on those two factors plus room size and desired SPL, you get to amplifier size needed to achieve those. If a room is 3-4m long and one is listening to music, you just don't need that much power.

    Keeping with analogies, if your needs are that you are going to drink 2-cups of water in any meal, there is no good reason to get a full 1-gallon jug each time.

    "
    but used for higher SPL and/or hometheater, it will be too litle[sic]"

    Ah ha! Now you have changed the equation a bit. We've moved from music speakers (left/right) to home theatre subwoofer. Rather than just an augmentation to a normal speaker, the cinema subwoofer is its own channel with a potential 10dB more level. So now, the potential for the subwoofer is to play at about 112dBc (presuming reference level volume is set) in the pass band (120Hz and below). Coming off of that will be whatever room-gain you have and boundary conditions that might put the subwoofer in a more efficient circumstance. But yes, if the need was for a cinema-subwoofer, I would indeed go up on power. And, true to form, for my own home theatre were we built SUB 18 clones (a little larger) I'm indeed providing them with thousands of watts. In fact, despite being in the USA (normally 120VAC), that amp will be powered by 240VAC (home power) to keep the current down and avoid tripping any circuit protection (plus that balances out the power to the panel well). The 2269 is relatively inefficient driver but it plays quite deep and handles lots of power. I have two of them in the system for a room that is about 4m deep. They will be on the floor, in a baffle wall and near the sidewalls of the room.

    "my experince [sic] is very often a high power amp will have better Control than a smaller Power amp"

    Are experiences are not the same.



    Never mind,i don't understand that two words indeed,and i want to make the discussion light.
    Whether or not a poor analogy,it is not very hard to find some cases that driving 4675 amps for pro and home use.
    Again,audiophile is very personalized,there is not a standard answer for such question.
    BTW,i find it is very hard to convince somebody on the network
    46 lover

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post

    BTW,i find it is very hard to convince somebody on the network
    Don't feel bad... it is very hard to change people's opinions through any means of discussion. It's human nature I suppose.

    To objectively look at a problem with the mind of a scientist is one thing, but this goes against our nature at least for the vast majority of us.


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    I agree, that the document has no justifiaction for running a 600W+ amp in my situation.

    My room is 3*4,5m, so for example 300W are definetly going to be enough. Bigger amps just arent needed, but I will take the damping factor of the amps into account, since that seems to have an impact on sound quality. (Getting the membranes to stop at the right time?)

    Id rather focus on improving sound quality with - as Ian says - EQ and DSP, maybe room correction. Now that I have found out that it wont be necessary to spend as much money as I can on amp, I might considering using a sub or woofer at the opposite site of the room, to get rid of room modes.

    I am aware of the theory behind this and I also know that I will have to take measurements and be very careful if I want a good result, but at least one can dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gameuno View Post

    My room is 3*4,5m
    And the 2360/2446 horn/driver are about a meter deep on their own so you are down to just 3.5m for listening...but wait, you probably have some comfy recliners or a sofa so take another meter off and down to 3.5m from horn to listening position. So what are we up to? 39W for 105dBc (playing pink noise). But yeah, if you want 115dBc (out of just one speaker) break out the 400W amp...unless you only wanted 115dBc from the pair, in which case your 300W amp will be MORE than adequate!

    I don't know what music you are listening to or how loud you like it but I strongly suspect that Ian is correct...that first watt will be what you are using for 99% of the time. Gute Nacht

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    Small correction, the 4675C is only a 100 dB 1w/1m sensitivity. Still, not needing anything in a high powered amp for home use.

    How far away are you going to be seated and how loud do you want it to get? At about 10-feet away, you could hit 115dB with 300-watts (using the passive crossover). If you crossover at 500Hz, you'll find that you'll only need have of that power for the LF section...and we're talking about 115dB...the stuff that hearing loss is made from. And I'm also using power for pink noise, not actual program material.

    Before you remove the passive crossover from the circuit, use your existing power and ask yourself if it gets loud enough. I suspect that the answer will be "yes" with most any sized amplifier you put on it, unless you are really into VERY loud music (rock or even the cannon blast in the 1812 Overture, but for that, I'd recommend a subwoofer).

    Most home speakers are in the 80s-90s in sensitivity. Yours will be nearly 10dB more sensitive than that. 10dB in amplifier power is huge (9dB being 8 times so using rough numbers, if you think a typical home speaker needs 250-watts of power to hit your happy spot of level...these will need less than 35-watts.

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    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    Small correction, the 4675C is only a 100 dB 1w/1m sensitivity. Still, not needing anything in a high powered amp for home use.

    How far away are you going to be seated and how loud do you want it to get? At about 10-feet away, you could hit 115dB with 300-watts (using the passive crossover). If you crossover at 500Hz, you'll find that you'll only need have of that power for the LF section...and we're talking about 115dB...the stuff that hearing loss is made from. And I'm also using power for pink noise, not actual program material.

    Before you remove the passive crossover from the circuit, use your existing power and ask yourself if it gets loud enough. I suspect that the answer will be "yes" with most any sized amplifier you put on it, unless you are really into VERY loud music (rock or even the cannon blast in the 1812 Overture, but for that, I'd recommend a subwoofer).

    Most home speakers are in the 80s-90s in sensitivity. Yours will be nearly 10dB more sensitive than that. 10dB in amplifier power is huge (9dB being 8 times so using rough numbers, if you think a typical home speaker needs 250-watts of power to hit your happy spot of level...these will need less than 35-watts.
    It is totally two things!high power amp doesn't mean high sound presure level,you need not have to turn your amp at big volume when at home,but you must let 4675 works in the best state,we call it power reserve, in order to make full use of 4675.
    46 lover

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    sguttag, I understand what you mean. Just one thing: I dont want to biamp for more db, but for besser sound quality because of less distortion without the passive crossover. Following your argumentation, I surely wont need that much power. Good thing, that definetly equals less money to spend

    martin_wu99, even at relatively low listening levels? What would be the use of high wattage then? Im irritated

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