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Thread: Need your advice please! Build the good old JBL set again?

  1. #1
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    Need your advice please! Build the good old JBL set again?

    Hi,

    I'm 56 years old and back in the 80's maybe early 90's, at big parties, we had very nice results with 4 4530 and two slant plates 2395.
    Each side 2 4530's and on top the slant plate.

    Now my son wants to start where we left... ;-)
    Could you please help me to decide what to do?

    Because of my very positive memories of the good ols stuff, my first reaction was: let's build 4 enclosures 4530, buy a couple of (used) 2225H and again the slant plates.
    But, is this the right way to go?
    I mean, a big village party outside, inside a big tent with quite some people...

    What I can remember about the 4530/2395 combo, it was always very robust and reliable. A very solid and impressive sound.
    This set has never let us down, even in difficult situations.

    But, that was more than 25 years ago... I don't know what has changed in that time.
    I am quite old fashion and I know that not everything nowadays is better then it was years ago.
    On the other hand, music has changed and maybe the old setup cannot cope with that...

    More speaker movement necessary? Maybe more sub?
    Four 4530's probably will not deliver the low that is needed today?
    I have to ask you this question and have to considder that maybe this good old set from back then, can not compete with the (plastic?) active speaker(encloseres) used today...

    For me that's hard to believe and to accept...sniff...;-)
    But it could be very realistic though.
    How is "the sound" from the newer sets compared with the older?

    For my son I want to setup a set of speakers, and amps, and everything he needs that really rocks with more than enough lows.
    I'm more than happy to build it myself and it should have a size so it can be moved. That's why we chose the 4530 in stead of the 4520 back then.

    The set I have in mind right now is:
    - 4 x 4530 with 2225H speaker
    - 2 x 2395 with 2482 driver
    - 4 x 2402 bullet tweeter

    As an amp for the lows, I have the MPA1100 waiting here.
    BTW, would the 2441 driver be a better choice?

    Maybe you have a much better setup for todays needs.
    If possible something I can build myself, just to cut the costs.

    I hope you can give me some advice... ;-)

    Kind regards,

    Arne.

  2. #2
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hello Arne;

    I love these kinds of projects. If you really want to start where you were, you are going to have what you had.

    I donít know about you but I am a pretty optimistic guy and my sonic memory seems to remember everything sounding better than it did when honestly revisited. There are several exceptions fortunately.

    A few project management questions if I may:

    How many people do want this to cover? A crowd in a tent like back in the day or?

    Realistically how loud do you want it to play?

    What is the required bandwidth?

    What are the size and portability restraints?

    Just some hints will help define the scope of your project.

    All the best.
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  3. #3
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Arne,

    This new thread seems to revolve around similar concept and equipment as your previous thread.

    4520/4530 were discontinued from JBL catalogs in 1982 or so: too large, heavy, costly and difficult to build. More so when the cost of Watts having gone down significantly, the necessity of using larger and more efficient horn-loaded cabinets has more or less vanished these days... Save a few exceptions.

    The old horn cabinets were let go to make room for newer concepts: smaller, lighter, portable, stackable, arrayable. The vented- box is a way better compromise in my view being usually smaller, lighter, easier to build, cost effective and nicer LF response curves (easier to taylor to needs with box tuning).

    There is no real low-frequency bass (bandwidth) in a 4530, instead its more a matter of punch (amplitude). These two approaches are not the same thing. Look at the bump around 80-100 hz on the 4530 frequency response in JBL's "Low Frequency Enclosures" document (5/80). This is where the energy is, no sub type low-bass, just more amplitude. And its similar with the 4520 just a little deeper.

    My 4520/4530 memory from the old days (70s and 80s), and I've seen a lot of JBL horn-loaded LF boxes (4530, 4520, 4560, 4550) in bars, clubs, discos, venues, plus had friends who built those cabs for a living, is that typically the 2440 horn driver was used at the time as well as the 2405 tweeter, on box top or hanging above, with 4520/4530. Not really seen much 2402. The 2441 was the successor to 2440.

    One can still make vented boxes with 2225H/2441/2395/2405, similar to what RobertG here nicely did if I recall correctly, he posted a good picture of the final product (can't remember exact details or thread name though).

    I'll let you continue with Barry as he certainly has much more or better ideas/options than me on specific driver/horn/lens/box mixes. I "rest my case" as the expression says. Regards to both of you,

    Richard

  4. #4
    Senior Member turnitdown's Avatar
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    Given your previous rig, I might just build 4 of Wayne Parham's 4Pi speakers. Plans are free. They have a JBL 2226 and use a BE250 CD, but a 2426 is interchangeable with (provided) differences in the crossover. You can get the waveguide from Parts Express. I built a pair and took them to a wedding with 200 people in a room that could hold twice that and they were stellar. Some of the clearest PA sound I've heard with good power capabilities (which I could not max out, given the occasion and excellent dispersion.
    I think this would be a great modern-day equivalent of your original system and still be (almost) all JBL.

    https://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html

  5. #5
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    Hi,

    It took a while but we went a completely different way...
    We had the oppertunity to buy 8 SP128S install version subs.
    That might be a bit too much but a couple of 2242H speakers for spare is a good thing...

    For tops we are going to use the 4894, we have 4 of them now.
    Amps still the MPA1100 and MPA600, crossover the DSC280 of which we still need one extra...

    Kind regards,

    Arne.

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hello Arne;

    How many MPA1100ís do you have? How many of the SP128S subs do you plan to use?

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Hi Barry,

    At this moment we have 6 x MPA1100 and 2 x MPA600
    I don't know how the SP128 will sound yet... ;-)

    Kind regards,

    Arne.

  8. #8
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    You will run out of power before you run out of sub driver. My guess is you end up using them all.

    I am interested in what you think of them.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  9. #9
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    Hi Barry,

    Yes, I think you are right.
    I'm still building the amp racks so I cannot tell you how they sound at this time...
    But, I expect that we will use 4 subs together with the 4 tops and use the MPA100 in bridge.
    So that will be around 2400w for every SP128S then.

    Barry, do you have experience with the SP128S?

    I'm still looking for an extra DSC280 controller...
    Not so very easy.
    Is there anybody who can help me to compare the older DSC280 with for instance the DBX DriveRack-PA2?
    Maybe it makes sence to sell the one DSC280 I have now and buy two DBX controllers?

    Thanks!

    Kind regards,

    Arne.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hello Arne;

    I donít have any SP128ís. The closest I have are the JBL 5749ís, about 18 cubic feet per with 2 2242ís and tuned to 25 Hz. I have six of these each on 1200 W amps and a single horn loaded 2220 mid bass on each side can still be louder.

    Your SP128ís are a 4 Ohm load that your MPA amps may not be happy to drive in bridged mode. That amp / speaker combination makes it hard to get the most out of either.

    Are you building two identical amp racks?

    The DSC looks pretty capable, do you currently have just one?

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  11. #11
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    Hi Barry,

    Yes, I have one DSC280 now and would like another one so I can build two identical racks.
    But, that's not so easy though.

    According to the tech specs of the MPA1100, it should be able to drive 4 ohm in bridged mode.
    We will find out soon... ;-)

    Kind regards,

    Arne.

  12. #12
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I see my last two questions were answered in you other thread.

    If the MPAís will drive them in bridge mode that will be great.

    With only 1200 Watts per box I donít even high pass mine, itís not enough power to hurt them below resonance.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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