Old timer help? jbl 4507 4645, altec lansing 3156 2226 2380 2445 3110A/ 3115AB argh!

[RCAdog]

Yeah, I'm new here, 1st post, yada yada, cut me a wee bit of slack. So long story short, I finally got lucky on CL, and after a 13+ hour round trip arrived back home with a pair of jbl 4507's and a pair of 4645's. When I had time to dig into what I actually had, the magnet assembly was totally gone from one of the 18" 4645 drivers, and the other 18" is apparently a generic non jbl driver. Bummer.

On to the 4507's. 2445J's mounted to 2380's on top, sounds fine. I figured these probably had 2225s in them, but seller told me they had Altecs in them, turned out to be a good sounding pair of 3156's. Further inspection found a 3110A crossover in one and a 3115A in the other.
Battery of questions, if you don't mind.

1. find 2242H drivers for the 4645 cabs? (dbx 234 a decent electronic crossover for this application? x-overed at 80-100hz or so?)
2. I had planned to put a pair of jbl 2226h's in these, but to be honest the altec lansing 3156's sound pretty DAMN good, thoughts on which are better?
3. When I saw the the crossovers installed, I figured they were 3115A's or maybe 3110A's, turns out I got one of each. Its my understanding that the 500hz is the preferable crossover point, or does that depend on my keeping the altec 3156 or switching to the jbl 2226h? I ain't rich, should I sell both on fleabay and beg here for a schematic for this configuration for a fixed 700hz crossover?
4. any improvement going to 2446js over 2445's?
5. any other input or advice appreciated.

thanks much,
RCAdog

[Mr. Widget]

Welcome to the forum!

So it sounds like you have four large black boxes and an interesting jumble of other parts. What are you trying to achieve? A portable DJ setup, PA system, home theater system, high efficiency stereo system for low output tube amps, or something else entirely?


Widget

[sguttag]

Whereas most, if not all of that stuff was in cinema, I can speak to how it was used in that application...

The 4645, which used the 4518 cabinet (has three ports above the driver) used the 2245H driver. The 2242 (and 2241) will fit the cabinet but I cannot speak to the tuning of the cabinet, which I would think would have a lower fb to match the 2245 rather than the 2242. It'll make sound, for sure. Someone should run the numbers on the ports to see if they can/should be modified for the 2242. The cabinet volume for the 4645 versus the 4645B and 4645C are the same, 9ft³.

The 4507 with the 2245/2380 is the 4673 system. Depending on the vintage of everything, the original driver was a 2225H or 2226H (I'm ruling out the E series since it has a 2380 rather than an acoustic lens system). I like the 2226 and that is the driver I'd use in it, if buying new or good-used. The 2225 is also fine and will work well in that cabinet.

For Cinema, the 3115 would be used with a 2445/2380 to have a 500Hz crossover (we are fussy about dialog and having the crossover down around 500Hz keeps the crossover out of the dialog area best). The 4671 (used the 2225/2370 horn combination) used the 3110 (800Hz crossover) as well as most other uses of the 4673 to provide better power handling for sound reinforcement applications. The 3110/3115 was a decent enough crossover with considerable amount of "tuning" capability with two hinge points. Watch out for the push terminals. They LOVE to loosen up. If they do, drill out the pop-rivets holding the crossover together, tighten up the push terminals (or replace if they a broken) and I suggest blue loctite to encourage the screw not to loosen up again. Reassemble with button head screws after tapping the case so it is a repairable crossover in the future.

The 2446 sounds different than the 2445 and has more high-end but I think it sounds harsher. Again, in cinema, that isn't an issue since we are playing through a sheet of vinyl and need all of the high-end we can get. The extra power handling of the 2446 is welcomed. If I were you, I'd listen to what I have before worrying about replacing it (aside from at least having a matching set).

[more10]

2226 sounds terrible in midrange, it is a bass driver. I believe the problem is the ribbed cone.

Keep the Altec. Here is the spec sheet: http://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-conte...16/06/3156.pdf. Curvilinear cone is the difference. JBL 2220 is probably better for midrange but pretty expensive.

Cut at 800 Hz. 500 Hz is too low for the 2380. Improve the 2445 with these diaphragms: https://reconingspeakers.com/product...1sl-diaphragm/. 2446 is not much better.

dbx 234 is very good. You can use it for 3 way. Get a cheap low power amp and drive the horns with it.

[RCAdog]

Thanks much for the info/replies!

...and thanks for the welcome Mr. Widget.
"or something else entirely?" sounds like the most fun of the list. I'm too old for portable dj work, and if the band got back together it would look like an Eliquis commercial, nor would I want the MDF? boxes for moving around. HiFi use definitely with a dose of "home theater" tossed in. Do not currently own any low power s.e.p. or s.e.t. amps ala Dennis Had's Fire Bottles, but not ruling something like that out in the future either. I used to "roll speakers" the way some "roll tubes". Currently have vintage acoustic research AR90's, klipsch Heresy's, KG2's, etc.
I like el34's and 6550/kt88s a lot, but mostly have ss transistor amps currently (B&K) and am a fan of vintage vinyl, especially the RCA Living Stereo pressings, hence the moniker.

sguttag,
Lots of very detailed info, thanks! I thought all 3 iterations of the 4645 were close enough that the 2242h would be fine in 1st version, if someone here can run those numbers re ports that would be great. I have heard a B or C model with the 2242h and it was great. I have a 2240h in good shape I can put in one for trial purposes. I have the dbx234 and enough amps to tinker with to decide if I want 2, 1 or 0 subs long term.

re:4507s etc. They seem early production all with the silver/black ser# stickers, 2380 are non A models, imagine were 2225h originally. I am a 2226h superfan! I have a stacked boxes of them in various conditions, and sadly sold a pair that were NIB during tough times. If I don't have a good pair, I'm 95% sure I have a pair of real jbl recone kits. While I can't agree with more10's comment on the 2226h, I gotta say those altec 3156's sound really, really, good in the 4507. I'm not sure that it will be easy comparison because of the time it would take to swap the woofers out. I'm wondering if more10 is thinking of the 2035h?.... if I go with the 2226h I have another project the 3156's will be great for.

"we are fussy about dialog and having the crossover down around 500Hz keeps the crossover out of the dialog area best" ok, so if I am more concerned about music than dialog I should probably be looking for another 3115a? I'm tempted to go that way as I have never had a horn that was good down to 500hz, on the other hand the 2226h or 3156 probably handle the 500-800 range pretty darn well, especially if I end up using the subs for everything under 100-200 or so. Loose terminals, yup. drill, repair or replace, blue loc, tap, screws. tnx! & gotcha. Anybody know ohm values to look for on the 3110/3115s? I'm not really surprised I haven't heard the difference between the two, with one being 500 the other 800, not currently set up properly, etc.

"2446 sounds different... has more high-end but I think it sounds harsher." I picked up a like new one with a 2385 horn that was a really good deal, thinking they were pretty close and if I went with "home theatre", center channel. (intending flipping the 2385 and buying another 2380) are you familiar with the diaphragm swap mentioned by more10 in his response? I AM impressed by the detail and clarity of the 2445/2380, and I have heard a lot of horns for hifi, but probably none over 1 3/8" that sounded worth a damn.

more10,
I think you are right about the 3156, I wish I could a/b it directly against the 2226h, as that is a speaker I KNEW was darn good. Do you have it confused for another re: midrange? (see my comments above to sguttag) "Cut at 800 Hz. 500 Hz is too low for the 2380" If music is more important to me than dialog, do you think they still sound better at 800?
Thanks for the links. Do you think those diaphragms are worth the money ($220+) if original ones are undamaged? I would love to visit Sweden at least once before I die, I raced Husqvarnas in motocross from 1972 to 1977 125, 250 & 360. Good stuff, great quality, wonderful memories. I look forward to using the dbx 234 for hifi, only used it for bass playing before with dual 15 cabs and 18 subs.

many thanks, and any and all opinions welcomed,
RCAdog

[sguttag]

The 2380 horn will load the driver but it has zero pattern control below 800Hz and really not much below 1000Hz. I'm not a big fan of the 2380 horn. If I were to mix and match JBL/Altec, I'd use an MRII594A before I'd use the 2380.The 3156 is a fine driver though it doesn't have much in the deep-bass department. It drops like a rock at 50Hz. It handles 250-watts to the 2226's 600-watts. I only used the 3156 in A6 systems and did fine though again, nothing below 50Hz. I'd probably go for 800Hz in a "music" situation over the 500Hz for the 2380 horn.

[more10]

Get a pair of 2220A. Beautiful midrange. Or maybe you will become a bitter old man, having missed out on these fantastic drivers for such a long time :-).

[jbl4ever]

Yes on the 2220 speakers they are great for midbass. Maybe find the 2382 horn 120x40

[RCAdog]

I'm still diggin it.
The only Changes I have made so far:
1. I picked up another 3110A, so now I have a pair of the same thing. If anyone has a 3115A they wanna part with, let me know, I might wanna hear what a pair of those sound like.
2. I picked up a single 2446J with a 2385A I have been listening to, attached to the channel that is closest to my seated position. More detailed, more highs, maybe a little bit too "harsh"? Need more time to compare I think.
3. I picked up a pair of EV DH1A's 8 ohms, coupled to hp94's. Way too strident, think some/most of the problem is the horn, didn't give these more than a few minutes of play time.
4. Right now I am listening to JBL 2447J's with 2332 horns, and I think for home use, these might be the best choice.
5. Picked up a pair of 511B horns, just because they were close by and priced right. Think I'll try them out on some other speakers I have in another room. Been wanting to replace those EV 8HD horns anyway, wonder what the 511B's will sound like with EV 1824M's?

Hey, if nothing else I am having fun tinkering with it all.

[Mr. Widget]

5. Picked up a pair of 511B horns, just because they were close by and priced right. Think I'll try them out on some other speakers I have in another room. Been wanting to replace those EV 8HD horns anyway, wonder what the 511B's will sound like with EV 1824M's?

Hey, if nothing else I am having fun tinkering with it all.

You'll need an adapter to fit the threaded EV driver on the Altec horn. There are inexpensive adapters available, but I find most adapters negatively impact performance.


Widget

[RCAdog]

You'll need an adapter to fit the threaded EV driver on the Altec horn. There are inexpensive adapters available, but I find most adapters negatively impact performance.


Widget

thanks!,

knew that already and understand, looks like the ones available from Eminence might be the shortest added length and highest quality apparatus... or I could just unbox the bolt on polyamide DE250's purchased and reserved a couple of years ago for that still uncompleted pi4 project, to see just how the 511Bs sound before adding the cost of the adapters to the mix. (not much tho) Got to sound better in that configuration than the 8HD's I'd think.

jbl4ever: Still lookin' for some affordable 2382's to try with the 2445's, and now some 2352's to try with the 2447's. (were there any 120 degree horns for the 1.5 inchers?)