Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: 2405H purchased for my L200's - are these things legit?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16

    2405H purchased for my L200's - are these things legit?

    Hello everyone,

    I last posted about cutting some holes in my L200 cabinets for 2405h slot tweeters. You all had some great input but life got in the way and I simply didn't have time to move forward with it. I also had some difficulty finding a clean pair of drivers. Well, I finally pulled the trigger and bought what appeared to be a really clean pair of 2405h with original diaphragms! A holiday gift to myself.

    They just arrived today. Upon unwrapping the first one, I noticed that it smelled like fairly fresh spray paint. It was easily flaking off. No big deal, but not quite as "mint" as they appeared in the pics and some small paint chips fell into the slot and could be seen on the diaphragm. When I unwrapped the second one, one of the pieces to the left and right of the phase plug (half-moon shaped piece) fell out in my hand. It had glue behind it, looked like Loctite 401, stuck to both the horn and the piece itself. I did multiple searches and could not find a 2405h with one of these pieces removed or missing. Seller told me to glue it back in (which I did), but something seemed a little off about that solution since I noticed paint overspray on the back of that piece and the horn behind it when it was removed. The piece also had a notch on the back of it, as though it was supposed to be resting on something to align it and hold it in place when mounted (with that piece out, the entire horn assembly was smooth, like a 2402).

    I decided to take the magnet off and check the diaphragm as neither phase plug was completely parallel with the openings. I found that the alignment pins on the magnet were not present. The holes to receive them are on the horn assembly, but no pins to go into them. This has me concerned that the diaphragm is not aligned correctly. On a more serious note, I'm worried that the horns themselves might be 2402's with 2405 pieces glued in place - that might be just me being paranoid, it just seemed odd that those things would come off so easily and they were packed extremely well.

    I'm willing to overlook the paint job and gluing/adjustment even though I paid good money for these, it is worth it just to be done with them. However, if they're miss-matched parts or not authentic, I'm not sure I want to proceed using them in this build. I've attached a couple of pictures for reference and can take more if that would help.

    Any suggestions are much appreciated. Happy holidays!

    Nik
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  2. #2
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,341
    The front "snout" on those doesn't look right. Something is weird about those front pieces - they should not be glued into place!

    I'm at work and don't have access to blow-away diagrams, but - ship them back for a full refund and buy elsewhere!




    Quote Originally Posted by nikster22 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I last posted about cutting some holes in my L200 cabinets for 2405h slot tweeters. You all had some great input but life got in the way and I simply didn't have time to move forward with it. I also had some difficulty finding a clean pair of drivers. Well, I finally pulled the trigger and bought what appeared to be a really clean pair of 2405h with original diaphragms! A holiday gift to myself.

    They just arrived today. Upon unwrapping the first one, I noticed that it smelled like fairly fresh spray paint. It was easily flaking off. No big deal, but not quite as "mint" as they appeared in the pics and some small paint chips fell into the slot and could be seen on the diaphragm. When I unwrapped the second one, one of the pieces to the left and right of the phase plug (half-moon shaped piece) fell out in my hand. It had glue behind it, looked like Loctite 401, stuck to both the horn and the piece itself. I did multiple searches and could not find a 2405h with one of these pieces removed or missing. Seller told me to glue it back in (which I did), but something seemed a little off about that solution since I noticed paint overspray on the back of that piece and the horn behind it when it was removed. The piece also had a notch on the back of it, as though it was supposed to be resting on something to align it and hold it in place when mounted (with that piece out, the entire horn assembly was smooth, like a 2402).

    I decided to take the magnet off and check the diaphragm as neither phase plug was completely parallel with the openings. I found that the alignment pins on the magnet were not present. The holes to receive them are on the horn assembly, but no pins to go into them. This has me concerned that the diaphragm is not aligned correctly. On a more serious note, I'm worried that the horns themselves might be 2402's with 2405 pieces glued in place - that might be just me being paranoid, it just seemed odd that those things would come off so easily and they were packed extremely well.

    I'm willing to overlook the paint job and gluing/adjustment even though I paid good money for these, it is worth it just to be done with them. However, if they're miss-matched parts or not authentic, I'm not sure I want to proceed using them in this build. I've attached a couple of pictures for reference and can take more if that would help.

    Any suggestions are much appreciated. Happy holidays!

    Nik
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    The front "snout" on those doesn't look right. Something is weird about those front pieces - they should not be glued into place!

    I'm at work and don't have access to blow-away diagrams, but - ship them back for a full refund and buy elsewhere!
    Thanks Heather! I agree, something didn't seem right as soon as I saw them. I just measured the slot gap width on the one that didn't come apart and the two pieces are not parallel. 0.75" on one end vs 0.68" on the other end, visible to the naked eye and seems like it would impact the sound. Shoddily reassembled at a minimum, with a poor paint job to boot!

  4. #4
    Senior Member HCSGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Posts
    598
    On a slightly different subject, I have a S7 load (LE85/LE15A) of my dad's in L200 boxes. I bypassed the JBL crossover and biamped them with an active crossover (JBL M552) and it made a world of difference - both in sound quality and ability to adjust the sound to fit the room and my preference. I would consider trying that before you cut a hole in your cabinets. Just my 2 cents...
    That the internet contains a blog documenting your life does not constitute proof that your existence is valid. Sorry.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by HCSGuy View Post
    On a slightly different subject, I have a S7 load (LE85/LE15A) of my dad's in L200 boxes. I bypassed the JBL crossover and biamped them with an active crossover (JBL M552) and it made a world of difference - both in sound quality and ability to adjust the sound to fit the room and my preference. I would consider trying that before you cut a hole in your cabinets. Just my 2 cents...
    I didn't find the top end to be satisfactory with it biamped. The le85/hl91 combo still lacks top end sizzle. Eq only added distortion. I experimented with a rather beat set of 2404 set atop the cabs and triamped which was a whole new experience. As others pointed out in my earlier thread, l200 boxes aren't particularly desirable so I'd be willing to cut them for the right drivers (which I thought I had but apparently not yet!)

  6. #6
    Senior Member jbl4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    McHenry IL
    Posts
    276
    Hi Nik send those franken speakers back to the seller and leave him some negative. There are plenty of 2405's for sale, you do not need to accept someones attempt to make looking new and a poor job at that. I wonder if they have real JBL diaphragms in them too

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    239
    Other issues aside, the construction looks correct for 2405’s but they’re not in the best shape. The horn part of the 2405 was not machined from a single piece. If you take away those parts as you noticed the outer part is the same as a 2402.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by jbl4ever View Post
    Hi Nik send those franken speakers back to the seller and leave him some negative. There are plenty of 2405's for sale, you do not need to accept someones attempt to make looking new and a poor job at that. I wonder if they have real JBL diaphragms in them too
    I am leaning toward this. They do appear to have the real jbl diaphragms as described, but I am concerned now that they're not aligned properly since it looks like they were hastily taken apart and reassembled for the paint job. The PNs on the diaphragms are correct, looks like 1 was redone in 08 and the other maybe original? The magnet SNs are sequential.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by allen mueller View Post
    Other issues aside, the construction looks correct for 2405’s but they’re not in the best shape. The horn part of the 2405 was not machined from a single piece. If you take away those parts as you noticed the outer part is the same as a 2402.
    Hi Allen. Good to know on the outer piece being the same as a 2402. At least I know the parts are what they should be. Is it normal for those slot inserts to fall out/come unglued without some type of hard impact like being dropped? That's what had me most concerned. Between the loose one and gross misalignment on the other, it seems like they both saw some abuse.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Fayetteville, NY
    Posts
    16
    UPDATE: Seller was very understanding and agreed to a return, no questions asked and covering shipping both ways. They did offer up another pair, but it was from the same source as these and likely would be in similar condition so I passed. So, good news that I'm not stuck with them, bad news that the search is back on!

    Thanks to all who gave input, I really appreciate it.

    Any suggestions on where to find a relatively clean, unmolested pair? Check the classifieds here? Should I pay the premium for 077's to avoid drivers that may have seen "road" use?

    Thanks again.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    364

    Unhappy Glued-on wedges are correct, except on very early version.

    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    The front "snout" on those doesn't look right. Something is weird about those front pieces - they should not be glued into place!

    I'm at work and don't have access to blow-away diagrams, but - ship them back for a full refund and buy elsewhere!
    Glued-on wedges is the factory method of attachment. The exploded diagram doesn't reveal this detail, as the 2405 horn is an assembled part.
    The outer horn is actually an 075/2402 machined casting, with the wedges installed to make the slot.
    The inner phase plug (aluminum version) is basically a 2402 casting with a different profile machined onto it.

    It's hard to tell from your pictures, but it looks like the horns were re-painted with the wedges removed, then the wedges were glued on again. Glued painted surfaces is probably why they didn't stay put, along with what is apparently a poor job of re-painting them in the first place.

    I have one or two very early 077/2405 drivers that actually have the outer horn drilled along the outer circumference and the wedges are attached with a machine screw into a threaded boss on the back side of the wedges.
    I'll see if I can find them and post pictures to this thread.

    LHS member subwoof posted pics about this some years ago; perhaps you can search his old posts.
    He also wrote me about making his own wedges with some clever use of liquid epoxy and masking tape over the 075/2402 horn mouth, pouring the liquid into the horn throat while propping it up at the correct angle and letting the epoxy level itself out and harden.

    One thing to watch for:

    Most -if not all- AlNiCo ring radiators used two alignment pins to align the diaphragm and outer horn, with 2 alignment holes drilled to accept the pins AND a flat and a deep groove cut into the outer horn for the diaphragm. The groove is cut just deep enough to contain the diaphragm but shallow enough to still clamp the diaphragm's outer mounting ring.
    Ferrite versions did away with the alignment dowels, and instead cut a shallow groove into the top plate of the motor to center the diaphragm AND a shallow groove in the outer horn to align the horn to the motor. The alignment pin holes are absent on the later "Ferrite version" outer horn.

    You cannot use the early "alNiCo" motor outer horns (easily identified by the presence of the two alignment pin holes) on the later "Ferrite" motors, or the diaphragm outer ring won't be clamped tight and the diaphragm will likely buzz...

    On another note: The ONLY difference between the D8R075, D8R076, and D16R2405 diaphragms is the width of the moving part of the diaphragm, dictated by the width of the inner and outer clamping rings: the 075 rings are narrower, yielding a wider diaphragm, which shifts it's operating range down to ~3KHz and a rolloff beginning ~12.5KHz; the 2405 diaphragm rings are wider, therefore the diaphragm is narrower, with an operating range from ~7KHz on out to ~22KHz.

    Credit goes to LHS member 1audiohack for finding and posting the differences between the three aluminum ring radiator diaphragms.

    The diaphragm material and the voice coil assembly is identical among all three, confirmed by a rare forum post by Mr. Greg Timbers himself.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Posts
    4,682
    To illustrate Rudy's words, here are 3 of 1audiohack's most excellent pics that illustrate the differences in the 3 diaphragm types.


    Blue surround is the 077, gold surround shows the 075 diaphragm ( as Rudy mentioned, note the 077's smaller width of the actual sound producing ring of aluminum ).

    Name:  2404 research (6).jpg
Views: 164
Size:  73.4 KB

    The 076 diaphragm is a sort of in-between model. Here it's compared to the 075 ( seen on the left ) .

    Name:  Audio 114.jpg
Views: 163
Size:  76.4 KB

    Here's the 077 compared to the 076.

    Name:  Audio 113.jpg
Views: 156
Size:  67.8 KB


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 4345's legit? or Fake?
    By avengerpilot in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-09-2016, 07:27 AM
  2. does it look legit? JBL Apollo
    By ARMED in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-18-2016, 02:47 PM
  3. Legit 2235H cones?
    By Mike F in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-17-2014, 01:32 AM
  4. Tube vs. SS article and seems legit
    By JBLAddict in forum General Audio Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-20-2012, 12:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •