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Thread: Heil with a JBL woofer

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Hi Dhar,

    I have to imagine that those measurements from Dennis were from an earlier generation of large Heils.

    Here's a comparison of Rob's measurements with those of Hobby HiFi ( I slightly shifted the FR of the Hobby HiFi trace to lineup the 5K bump ) to compare the general shape of the curve.

    Attachment 85663

    Above 3K, I would say one would have a real challenge hearing any difference.


    Thanks, Earl!

    That is pretty impressive range (500hz - 20Khz). May not be untrue that it can be crossed as low as 800hz. Mine will not be shipped now until tomorrow; thus, I don't expect to have mine until the end of next week (from CA to MD). As soon as mine arrive, I will take measurement (+/-90 degrees horizontal, and +/-30 degrees vertical).

  2. #77
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    Heil with JBL woofer

    I have used the Heil in the past and disliked the simblence which may have been the 5-7 k peak. Though way more complicated I wonder how it would be as strictly a midrange ie: VOLENT speaker Paragon VL-4. Might be good from say 1.2-5k and then use a ribbon tweeter beyond.

  3. #78
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I have used the Heil in the past and disliked the simblence which may have been the 5-7 k peak.
    I am using a pair now. Don't have a sibilance issue with them. I have am using a notch filter to tame the peak.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  4. #79
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    The other issue is that the Heli only go down to ~1kHz. What to put in the very important ~200-1kHz range that will match its speed?

  5. #80
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Last night I cleaned up the setup. Removed all the clutter, and then putting the Heil at the front edge of the 15" cabinet, overhanging just slightly, and then raised up by 1" to give the V shaped throat a bit of space to breath instead of hitting the top edge of the cabinet. And then time aligned electronically.

    Results is more defined imaging and clarity.

    I will post pics and measurements later today.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    The other issue is that the Heli only go down to ~1kHz. What to put in the very important ~200-1kHz range that will match its speed?
    2251J



  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    Last night I cleaned up the setup. Removed all the clutter, and then putting the Heil at the front edge of the 15" cabinet, overhanging just slightly, and then raised up by 1" to give the V shaped throat a bit of space to breath instead of hitting the top edge of the cabinet. And then time aligned electronically.

    Results is more defined imaging and clarity.

    I will post pics and measurements later today.

    I just slide mine back and forth and watch the results on the RTA looking for the smoothest curve.

  8. #83
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    2251J
    Nice! Did you build that enclosure?

    I have a practically brand new 2123H that have been sitting around. Time to bring out the saw table...

    I am still not sure if a traditional driver will be fast enough. Though probably better than relying on a heavy 15" driver. For faster speed, may have to go with a midbass horn (really big), or a planar driver. I just got myself 4x BG Neo10. Should have it next week. It can cover ~200Hz upwards. Still won't have the dynamics of horns but the ears will tell.

  9. #84
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    to follow up. here is a measurement after clearing some junk around the Heil and also raised it 1 inch (dark green), and 2 inch (purple) from the top of the cabinet, measure from ~1m.

    Yellow is near field, 3 inches away. Light green is 1 inch away.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    Nice! Did you build that enclosure?

    I have a practically brand new 2123H that have been sitting around. Time to bring out the saw table...

    I am still not sure if a traditional driver will be fast enough. Though probably better than relying on a heavy 15" driver. For faster speed, may have to go with a midbass horn (really big), or a planar driver. I just got myself 4x BG Neo10. Should have it next week. It can cover ~200Hz upwards. Still won't have the dynamics of horns but the ears will tell.
    Yes, I built them and they are rear ported. The 2251J was actually designed to be used in a midbass horn enclosure. A 2241H is crossed over at 225Hz.

    Lately I've taken to running the system as a 2.5 way letting the 2251J roll off naturally at its bottom end. Taking the high pass (32.5 mfd) cap away does a nice job of flattening its frequency response, and the cap was only reducing the volume by ~1 dB down at 40 Hz, so really wasn't providing critical "protection." Anyway, this is used in a home environment and can blow my ears out before doing any damage to the driver, rated at 400 watts.

    The 2251J is a very fast speaker because the cone is very light with an accordion edge and it uses the differential drive system and has no measureable inductance of its own. When you look at the Heil plots, I cross it over around 4KHz so that the 5kHz peak is reduced into the area so that blends with the 2251J.

    Similarly, the 2251J gets rough up in this area, and crossing it at about 2kHz flattens that rise between 2-4K, and the anomolities above that drop like a stone letting it blend with the Heil.

    Internet plot of 2251J:


  11. #86
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    Most current version of the crossovers. The 0.9/30 ohm control the high cutoff frequency of the 2251J while the 6.8 "squares" off the top of the band. The 0.065/2.37 control the interface to the Heil. A smaller value resistor will result in a peek ~5KHz whereas omission will result in a dip between the drivers. Don't forget the Heil's "wedgie."


  12. #87
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    I did some sim before and had planned to make a 1/2 cu ft sealed box for the 2123. I think seal box will give a faster response. Never gotten around to building it though. Too much stuff to play with at the moment.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpsmash View Post
    I did some sim before and had planned to make a 1/2 cu ft sealed box for the 2123. I think seal box will give a faster response. Never gotten around to building it though. Too much stuff to play with at the moment.
    When I close off the port, the 2251J just doesn't sound as good nor is as flat.

  14. #89
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    The Heils have arrived!

    Per UPS tracking, the Heils have arrived. I plan on taking measurements later today/tomorrow.

    Wanted to know if people are using a protection cap (e.g. 50uF or 80uF) in series for measurement purposes?

    From what I've read, the AMT technology is nothing like ribbon technology, which does require a protection cap prior to measurements, and that the AMTs should have no trouble being measured full-range (assuming its at relatively low levels).

    Thoughts?

  15. #90
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    Wanted to know if people are using a protection cap (e.g. 50uF or 80uF) in series for measurement purposes?
    You could, I didn't. You could also limit a sine sweep or just use Impulse. Just do whatever you are comfortable with.

    Rob
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