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Thread: Altec Custom VOTT Somethings

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drugolf View Post
    Great stuff Richard, thanks.

    I received the new 414A surrounds. They look and fit great. Now the tough part - removing the old goop rings. Acetone + heat for the goop and MEK for the glue if needed. I am going to try and save as much of the goop as possible I guess by melting it off the old surrounds. Would like to have it on hand in the event I do not like the stuff that came with the surrounds. To me that stuff looks like a simple PVA glue product, but the seller says it isn't. I will try it first on one of the old surrounds to see what it does on drying.
    Which surrounds did you end up buying?


  2. #32
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    The ones on EBay. Seller stpsmf. Hempopotamus Speakers. Got a little break buying two sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Which surrounds did you end up buying?


  3. #33
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    My woodworker partner and I were discussing these today at great length. His thought is to simply build new cabinets and quit messing with the previous build that while not bad, does have some issues that we are trying to work around. On top of all that, they are Oak. Thoughts on the benefits? I can fine tune things down to a size, volume and configuration that would maximize the potential of these components and have a much more beautiful cabinet. And frankly it won't cost a lot depending on the selection of hardwood.

    I'm not sure if I would want to get into changing components unless there would be a significant advantage. I would guess the horn would be something to fully vet.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drugolf View Post
    My woodworker partner and I were discussing these today at great length. His thought is to simply build new cabinets and quit messing with the previous build that while not bad, does have some issues that we are trying to work around. On top of all that, they are Oak. Thoughts on the benefits? I can fine tune things down to a size, volume and configuration that would maximize the potential of these components and have a much more beautiful cabinet. And frankly it won't cost a lot depending on the selection of hardwood.

    I'm not sure if I would want to get into changing components unless there would be a significant advantage. I would guess the horn would be something to fully vet.
    I'll ponder all that and respond in the morrow.


  5. #35
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    So ( just my 2 cents ) my suggestion is to put off for a while the building of new cabinets.

    In the meantime use what you have there to figure out the following ( before moving on + building your new ones ) ;

    (i) Optimal size ( determine best size for your circumstances and the realities of working with Altec 414's )
    - One can always reduce a boxes net volume by temporarily placing known fillers into said box and then adjust box tuning to experience the effect of the smaller box.


    (ii) Optimal box tuning ( determine the best box tuning for your room and musical tastes )
    - You'll need some box tuning software and the ability to actually measure the resultant box tuning via impedance curves > but this is well worth the effort to learn > since it'll result in a custom tuning for your room .


    (iii) Optimal internal damping
    - ( ie; determine whether Altec correct in it's minimalist approach of just lining 3 of 6 internal surfaces ? )

    (iv) Optimal internal bracing
    - ( ie; see if historically if Altec correct in its minimalist bracing approach > typically using diagonal bracing > according to their own enclosure building guides )

    EDIT:(v) The best vertical arrangement ( for those twin 414's )
    - Unfortunately, only making a test baffle board can accomplish this task / which means cutting out the older baffle board on at least one of the existing speakers > something that may be un-palatable.


  6. #36
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    Makes sense to me. Let's do it!

    Item i is probably my biggest challenge. I am not sure I have a circumstance (room) where these will ever really be applicable in an ideal world so I don't think I wont to get too specific with matching my environment. But I say be practical. I need to think about it a bit. Putting off for a while is going to happen irregardless simply because it is winter and working on large cabinets etc is a little difficult at the moment. I am in the midst of my KHorn rebuild with my woodworker at his shop so maybe once those are wrapped up we can at least work on the existing baffle.

    In addition, the first thing I need to do is do the repairs on the woofers with the new surrounds and make sure all goes well with that. Good cold of winter inside work.

    ii - no problem. I have Woofer Tester 2. Have not used it for box tuning yet though and will need to learn that. Also have a UMIK mic and miniDSP

    v- Twin 414's What other applications even use twin 414's? Does it make sense? I happen to have a couple 803B 15" woofer sitting here if for some reason that's a better combo. Maybe the 414's would be best used and re-purposed in a smaller single woofer driver enclosure meant for a smaller room? The thing is, I love large speakers and the big live sound they produce. The problem specific to me is a smaller 13 x 12 main listening lounge and for the most part they are all just too big.

    Again, thanks Earl for taking the time with me here on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    So ( just my 2 cents ) my suggestion is to put off for a while the building of new cabinets.

    In the meantime use what you have there to figure out the following ( before moving on + building your new ones ) ;

    (i) Optimal size ( determine best size for your circumstances and the realities of working with Altec 414's )
    - One can always reduce a boxes net volume by temporarily placing known fillers into said box and then adjust box tuning to experience the effect of the smaller box.


    (ii) Optimal box tuning ( determine the best box tuning for your room and musical tastes )
    - You'll need some box tuning software and the ability to actually measure the resultant box tuning via impedance curves > but this is well worth the effort to learn > since it'll result in a custom tuning for your room .


    (iii) Optimal internal damping
    - ( ie; determine whether Altec correct in it's minimalist approach of just lining 3 of 6 internal surfaces ? )

    (iv) Optimal internal bracing
    - ( ie; see if historically if Altec correct in its minimalist bracing approach > typically using diagonal bracing > according to their own enclosure building guides )

    EDIT:(v) The best vertical arrangement ( for those twin 414's )
    - Unfortunately, only making a test baffle board can accomplish this task / which means cutting out the older baffle board on at least one of the existing speakers > something that may be un-palatable.


  7. #37
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    Twin 414's What other applications even use twin 414's? Does it make sense?
    Altec made at least 3 variants of boxes that used twin 414's.

    The industrial looking 9844and the home models Malibu and Carmel

    Personally, I like how twin vertically-oriented woofers load a room ( more so than
    horizontally twinned woofers ).

    Even better ( IMHO ) is an MTM setup using twin woofers.


  8. #38
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    I went ahead and busted out the existing baffle board. This now will allow me to fabricate something entirely new and as wanted. I may still build new enclosures, but for now the existing ones will allow some experimentation.

    One of the things I did not like from an aesthetics standpoint was how the nose of the horn stuck out from the rest of the baffle and required an odd opening in the grille. I can now inset the horn a little to get it back and behind a full grille. Will this cause any issues? My Santiagos and Valencias had the horn set-back a little.

    Also, should I consider any sort of integrated super tweeter?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drugolf View Post
    I went ahead and busted out the existing baffle board. This now will allow me to fabricate something entirely new and as wanted. I may still build new enclosures, but for now the existing ones will allow some experimentation.

    One of the things I did not like from an aesthetics standpoint was how the nose of the horn stuck out from the rest of the baffle and required an odd opening in the grille. I can now inset the horn a little to get it back and behind a full grille. Will this cause any issues? My Santiagos and Valencias had the horn set-back a little.

    Also, should I consider any sort of integrated super tweeter?
    Hi Drugolf,

    Altec themselves set the 811b back almost an inch ( in comparison to the 414's ) in some of the older versions of the 9844 system ( & the Malibu seen below ).
    - In case the pic doesn't make it clear, Altec added a 3/4" strip of wood to the back of the baffle board and then rear mounted the 811b to it ( effectively moving the horn close to 1" rear-wards when the thickness of the horms metal flange gets added in ).
    See;





    Doing so will also mean adopting whatever model crossover ( & speaker polarities ) Altec used with that offset.

    Later on with the 9844A Altec "flipped" the relation-ship between the woofers & the horn mounting ( moving the woofers backwards in comparison to the previous variants ) .
    - That flip-flop amounts to almost 2" of offset manipulation ( fwiw ) that would again need to be accounted for in the crossover ( which I haven't studied to see if Altec actually responded to ).

    See;



    Your N500E works best ( according to my XSims ) with about an 8" offset between the drivers AC ( acoustic centers > which are typically somewhere around the voice-coil areas )

    I'm using Fostex tweeters these days with my 288's ( added in at around 10K ), so that would be a natural recommend from me .


  10. #40
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    My Carmel’s 811B’s were offset much the same as the Malibu’s as well, only the system was horizontally oriented. I really liked the double 414’s, I later put mine in vertical, ported woofer only boxes and really enjoyed them.

    On the subject of improved HF performance, personally I would steer away from adding a tweeter, since this year I experimented and replaced my Valencia’s old 806 drivers with GPA 902’s - they are simply stunning with the 811’s and I no longer feel any need for more HF extension.

    Just my 2 cents...

  11. #41
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    8" offset - please explain?

    You have the outboard fostex" I use T90A's with my Bozak Concert Grands and recently tried with my AR3's with good results. Or should these be an integrated solution on the baffle and mods to the crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Your N500E works best ( according to my XSims ) with about an 8" offset between the drivers AC ( acoustic centers > which are typically somewhere around the voice-coil areas )

    I'm using Fostex tweeters these days with my 288's ( added in at around 10K ), so that would be a natural recommend from me .


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drugolf View Post
    8" offset - please explain?

    You have the outboard fostex" I use T90A's with my Bozak Concert Grands and recently tried with my AR3's with good results. Or should these be an integrated solution on the baffle and mods to the crossover?
    See what you can get from these links ( click the pics for more detail );






  13. #43
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    Good to know about GPA's 902's. I typically like to maintain the original intent or form factor of the original designs with my restorations so an up grade to the 902 would be that. Had considered keeping the horn out of the box. It would also allow me to play with different horn option easier.

    QUOTE=Chas;419429]My Carmel’s 811B’s were offset much the same as the Malibu’s as well, only the system was horizontally oriented. I really liked the double 414’s, I later put mine in vertical, ported woofer only boxes and really enjoyed them.

    On the subject of improved HF performance, personally I would steer away from adding a tweeter, since this year I experimented and replaced my Valencia’s old 806 drivers with GPA 902’s - they are simply stunning with the 811’s and I no longer feel any need for more HF extension.

    Just my 2 cents...[/QUOTE]

  14. #44
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    See what you can get from these links ( click the pics for more detail );






  15. #45
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    So I am strongly considering building the new baffle to house only the 414's and associated ports within the cabinet. Then coming up with an attractive solution on top for the horn. Thouhgts?

    Also, the 414's were rear mounted. Do I want to do the same?

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