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Thread: M2 residential amplifier choices???

  1. #31
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    No need for these ugly pro beasts at all, and no need to bear their fan noise
    46 lover

  2. #32
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    No need for these ugly pro beasts at all, and no need to bear their fan noise
    No need other than that you cannot achieve the peak sound pressure levels of 110dB at the listening seat in my room without >450wpc… If you want to really tap into the potential dynamic range of the M2s, your amp need the ability to hit these peaks and for that, Sir, you need pro amp power levels. Other than that, you're right.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Does the fan noise come from the front or the rear?

    How loud is it?

    Here is another idea.

    I assume you are familiar with noise canceling headphones.
    The noise from the fan could conceivably be cancelled out or significantly reduced by recording or amplifying the fan noise at the source and then playing the noise through a small loudspeaker at the source with the phase reversed at the driver. You could try this with a small microphone connected to an amplifier. You may need to experiment with the location of the mic and loudspeaker for best result.

  4. #34
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    No need other than that you cannot achieve the peak sound pressure levels of 110dB at the listening seat in my room without >450wpc… If you want to really tap into the potential dynamic range of the M2s, your amp need the ability to hit these peaks and for that, Sir, you need pro amp power levels. Other than that, you're right.
    Who will play M2 at 110dB sound pressure level in his living room?
    46 lover

  5. #35
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Most of us

  6. #36
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Most of us
    Unbelieveable
    46 lover

  7. #37
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    No need other than that you cannot achieve the peak sound pressure levels of 110dB at the listening seat in my room without >450wpc… If you want to really tap into the potential dynamic range of the M2s, your amp need the ability to hit these peaks and for that, Sir, you need pro amp power levels. Other than that, you're right.
    emphasis mine

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    Unbelieveable
    Hi Martin,

    While it is true the first watt is the most important the real headroom for un compressed (and un clipped) dynamics cannot be underestimated.

    For example I currently run 2 x 800 watts RMS for both woofers and 2 x 250 watts RMS on the mids and highs of my 4345 system.

    Allowing for a minimum 6db of headroom these amplifier ratings are realistic.
    Modern software using the DSD platform for transfers from master tapes pushes the envelop for more headroom even further.

    The presentation has a realism that is awe-inspiring. Noting even comes lose.

    Putting it in perspective the average consumer hifi loudspeaker has about 90 db sensitivity @ 1 metre for 1 watt. People who have not have moved over to the larger monitors might still think in the terms of what domestic loudspeakers sound like.

    Using a single 2 x 100 watt amplifier which might be considered the norm (for the Hifi buff) with a domestic loudspeaker is not going to create anything like the same presentation. It just won't.

    Systems with adequate headroom and low power compression don't actually sound loud or fatiguing.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Ian

  9. #39
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Mostly from the front even though the fan is in the rear of the amp.

    It adds about 3-5dB to the noise floor of my room.

    I've figured out a solution. There is a wall in my living room with a large void. I'm going to build an enclosed cabinet in to hide all of my audio gear.

    Thanks
    Paul


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Does the fan noise come from the front or the rear?

    How loud is it?

    Here is another idea.

    I assume you are familiar with noise canceling headphones.
    The noise from the fan could conceivably be cancelled out or significantly reduced by recording or amplifying the fan noise at the source and then playing the noise through a small loudspeaker at the source with the phase reversed at the driver. You could try this with a small microphone connected to an amplifier. You may need to experiment with the location of the mic and loudspeaker for best result.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Mr Wu,
    I 100% agree with Mr Mackenzie's answer to your question. I am so impressed with the combination of the Crown 4x1250n amp and the M2s. And just so you know, I typically listen at about 85dB, so not very loud. I've had, and listened to, a lot of very high end speakers and none have come close to the life-like presentation (dynamics) and clarity of the JBL M2 system. And this is even true at low SPLs. Horns, drums and vocals are ridiculously intoxicating and I can say I've never heard sounds presented like this ever before. For reference, this comparison includes both a WAMM and an Infinity IRS.
    Paul



    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi Martin,

    While it is true the first watt is the most important the real headroom for un compressed (and un clipped) dynamics cannot be underestimated.

    For example I currently run 2 x 800 watts RMS for both woofers and 2 x 250 watts RMS on the mids and highs of my 4345 system.

    Allowing for a minimum 6db of headroom these amplifier ratings are realistic.
    Modern software using the DSD platform for transfers from master tapes pushes the envelop for more headroom even further.

    The presentation has a realism that is awe-inspiring. Noting even comes lose.

    Putting it in perspective the average consumer hifi loudspeaker has about 90 db sensitivity @ 1 metre for 1 watt. People who have not have moved over to the larger monitors might still think in the terms of what domestic loudspeakers sound like.

    Using a single 2 x 100 watt amplifier which might be considered the norm (for the Hifi buff) with a domestic loudspeaker is not going to create anything like the same presentation. It just won't.

    Systems with adequate headroom and low power compression don't actually sound loud or fatiguing.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Ian

  11. #41
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    Mr Wu,
    I 100% agree with Mr Mackenzie's answer to your question. I am so impressed with the combination of the Crown 4x1250n amp and the M2s. And just so you know, I typically listen at about 85dB, so not very loud. I've had, and listened to, a lot of very high end speakers and none have come close to the life-like presentation (dynamics) and clarity of the JBL M2 system. And this is even true at low SPLs. Horns, drums and vocals are ridiculously intoxicating and I can say I've never heard sounds presented like this ever before. For reference, this comparison includes both a WAMM and an Infinity IRS.
    Paul
    Dear Paul,

    I do believe your wonderful feeling of M2 combining with Crown pro.but i don't believe Crown pro can be even better than those HiFi gears such as Mark,Mcintosh,Pass, etc at low SPLs

    Martin
    46 lover

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    Attachment 82706

    Now to figure out how to load the M2 file on the 4x1250......

    have you compare the Linkwitz Lab speakers to the M2?





    Ari

  13. #43
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    Dear Paul,

    I do believe your wonderful feeling of M2 combining with Crown pro.but i don't believe Crown pro can be even better than those HiFi gears such as Mark,Mcintosh,Pass, etc at low SPLs

    Martin
    Hello Martin;

    I am not picking on you, I am only using your statement as an example of a sentiment that has always made me wonder why they could not be.

    If the noise floor is sufficiently low and the output is truly linear to the input, where are the details or definition lost?

    I won’t argue that all amps sound the same as they clearly don’t but I don’t understand why a top quality big pro amp could not compete with any other top quality amp designed for domestic use.

    This a question I don’t expect to find a solid answer to. Maybe some day I will get to compare some top shelf audiophile amps to some of my top shelf pro amps.

    All the best,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  14. #44
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    I have to agree with Champster on the use of Crown Pro amps. I'm using two Crown ITEC5000HD's in a biamped system. Amps were used when I acquired them. Both the balanced analog inputs and AES digital inputs are connected. Fan noise IS an issue. But the AES input is the cats meow. The sound depth and detail are better then anything I have ever tried in my space, and I have had and still own a number of "analog" amps, plus a two decent D/A converters.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Most of us
    Agree totally. Why else would we buy 15” woofers and 4” Drivers and horn?

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