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Thread: M2 clone variation proposal

  1. #16
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    yes, ask a quote at Reco and wait a bit jbl to deliver parts to Reco. But you right I read somewhere on forum that guys in the JBL business can order spare parts (or/and if you know one).

  2. #17
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    Hi all,

    First, I would like to rename this thread by: yet another M2 clone, ... Indeed, I decided to use the standard M2 configuration. Do you know how to rename the title?

    Based on your input, sebackman, ivica, Mitcho, Flyod indirectly, DonC 's M2 proposal, and Thomas who helped me a lot, I succeeded to finalize one M2 clone proto!
    After some training on utube, I configured the bss blu160 (analog card for the time being) and use Pos' amps for test because mine was to small (100W).
    The cabinet is similar to the original ones without using CNC, so it took me one week end to make guides for the router. I've learned to be patient there.
    So, similar to M2, 3D priting ports, without absorbant inside (yet), BUT with small holes I think everywhere as I did not cut perfectly.

    It has been very exciting to hear the M2 the first time, wouah. I do not use measures, just folks who hear and ciritic.

    PS: for info, Pos' ones sound pretty good, "aux petits oignons" as frenches say ;-)

    During the tests, I've found two tracks worth to be listened to -enjoy-
    - Maria Mena, I was made for loving you ; https://open.spotify.com/track/7guh9tEA8xKPWX9NLEK1k0
    - fading sun, terje lsungset ; https://open.spotify.com/track/4KRTc3Gp9LLfMktZ7Xe7U1
    The second one sounds basic on basic speakers (my computer config), but just try them on the M2s ;-)

    Next steps are a) moving from proto to real, b) and selecting the amps (as my DiY tube amps are not perfect currently)

    Thank you for your inspiration, sounds good ;-).

  3. #18
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    I am not a regular reader of the forum but jumped in today to find your thread. I offer you the highest level of encouragement to build a pair of M2s! I bought a pair with the 4-1250N (4x1250WPC) Crown Amp last year and couldn't be happier! I love this system and will likely never change! While you're at it, remember, any deviation from JBLs design and it is no longer an M2. The magic of this system is multifold. First the drivers are unlike anything ever developed by JBL or any other manufacturer that I'm aware of. I've had so many other high end speakers in the last 30 years that I forget most of them. The M2s are truly incredible. These woofers have incredibly quick response to transients and the compression driver is more like a super powerful electrostatic driver with the accuracy and delicacy you've heard from electrostatics but with a tremendous amount of head room. I have never heard even the slightest sense of strain or stress at even the very loudest of playback levels. Importantly, the system is just as revealing (but not as much fun) at very low input levels. I think I underestimated the need for a high powered amp when I bought these but now that I have them and better understand the design of redundant drivers, it makes sense that JBL recommends this much power. You'll want a lot of amplifier headroom to match the capability of these drivers. And OH the waveguide….. It is magical! They image like crazy!!!!

    The tracks you suggested are fantastic! I'm halfway through the first album on Tidal… Great suggestions and good luck with your build. Stick to JBL's design and you won'd ever change speakers again...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    I am not a regular reader of the forum but jumped in today to find your thread. I offer you the highest level of encouragement to build a pair of M2s! I bought a pair with the 4-1250N (4x1250WPC) Crown Amp last year and couldn't be happier! I love this system and will likely never change! While you're at it, remember, any deviation from JBLs design and it is no longer an M2. The magic of this system is multifold. First the drivers are unlike anything ever developed by JBL or any other manufacturer that I'm aware of. I've had so many other high end speakers in the last 30 years that I forget most of them. The M2s are truly incredible. These woofers have incredibly quick response to transients and the compression driver is more like a super powerful electrostatic driver with the accuracy and delicacy you've heard from electrostatics but with a tremendous amount of head room. I have never heard even the slightest sense of strain or stress at even the very loudest of playback levels. Importantly, the system is just as revealing (but not as much fun) at very low input levels. I think I underestimated the need for a high powered amp when I bought these but now that I have them and better understand the design of redundant drivers, it makes sense that JBL recommends this much power. You'll want a lot of amplifier headroom to match the capability of these drivers. And OH the waveguide….. It is magical! They image like crazy!!!!

    The tracks you suggested are fantastic! I'm halfway through the first album on Tidal… Great suggestions and good luck with your build. Stick to JBL's design and you won'd ever change speakers again...

    Thanks for your feedback, very interesting and confirming some first impressions I had.

    yes and yes, you describe pretty well what I am feeling actually.
    I used a classD amp >500W and indeed it makes the difference, just WOUAH. Really amazing impression, stable, you push and drivers seem not to be limited, the music envolps you, and details are present even in another room. The first day after the proto ending, I came back from my work sooner just to listen more tracks... ;-).
    I remarked a impressive basic low quality if I use a low quality DAC. With a medium DAC quality (not professional), it becomes immedialty very good. So amp, DAC will be key.

    I will receive soon a micr, then REW will judge the wood prototype realisation quality better than my ears. I will see how far I am to a M2. I will need the forum to explain me what I will see from REW.

    and good music experience sharing Champster, nice.

  5. #20
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    First use of REW.
    I assume the down pics 150-300 Hz, 2, 2.5 and 4k highlight stuff to correct, so I will welcome your feedback.
    Note there is no absorbant in the cabinet.

    micro was more or less 1m at the bottom of the horn, test outdoor (but the speaker was still inside the house), single speaker.
    config is : PC -> DAC -> BSS -> amps -> micro.
    I made two measures, PC volume at 10 and at 40, see below.

    volume @10
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    volume @40
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  6. #21
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    I'd like to see the curves when the speaker is placed outside with no reflection barriers anywhere close to the speaker.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    I'd like to see the curves when the speaker is placed outside with no reflection barriers anywhere close to the speaker.
    Thanks champster, I see, will do tomorrow, start to be night overhere.

    I struggle with the micro position, should it be placed at the middle of the cabinet or more in the middle of the compression?


    By curiosity to see how a room influences the response, I made a mesure in a small room 15sqm (plus upgraded to REW 5.20 beta 8), with or w/o curtains, just incredible. Below is with curtain (1/48 smoothing):
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    and the beast
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    I'd like to see the curves when the speaker is placed outside with no reflection barriers anywhere close to the speaker.
    OK, I placed it accordingly to the length of cables, not totaly in the middle of nowhere:
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    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #24
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Excellent work! That has all the makings of looking just like a production version.

    I would think you’d want to orient the Mic in the middle between the two drivers. To have it on axis with the horn makes the off axis response of the woofer less than idea as the frequency rises toward the crossover point of 800. This may be part of the reason you’re seeing uneven response from the woofer, but wow the horn’s response is very flat.

    And just to make sure, are there any reflective barriers (walls or fences) in front of the speaker as it sits in the photo?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    Excellent work! That has all the makings of looking just like a production version.

    I would think you’d want to orient the Mic in the middle between the two drivers. To have it on axis with the horn makes the off axis response of the woofer less than idea as the frequency rises toward the crossover point of 800. This may be part of the reason you’re seeing uneven response from the woofer, but wow the horn’s response is very flat.

    And just to make sure, are there any reflective barriers (walls or fences) in front of the speaker as it sits in the photo?

    Hi Champster,

    good it sounds good ;-), promising. Currently, I did not put any absorbent inside the cabinet. Do you think it may change something?

    For woofer response, yes a fair explanation. I will redo a measure with the micro placed between the two speakers. Just a vocabulary question, when you say "orient", do you mean just "tilt" or reduce the height by 20cm down?

    Yes there is a fence screwed on top of the woofer to preserve it form many hands. I will remove it for the next measures?

    Thanks,

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodec View Post
    Hi Champster,

    good it sounds good ;-), promising. Currently, I did not put any absorbent inside the cabinet. Do you think it may change something?

    For woofer response, yes a fair explanation. I will redo a measure with the micro placed between the two speakers. Just a vocabulary question, when you say "orient", do you mean just "tilt" or reduce the height by 20cm down?

    Yes there is a fence screwed on top of the woofer to preserve it form many hands. I will remove it for the next measures?

    Thanks,
    Yes, 1” thick, fiberglass on all surfaces will improve the response a lot.

    Orient just means “to place”. I would just lower the microphone so that it is at the height of the lowest part of the waveguide or to say it another way, where the waveguide and the woofer meet.

    The wire screen over the woofer won’t effect the response but if you have a building or another structure that reflects sound back toward the speaker and microphone, it will produce unreliable frequency measurements.

    Nice work!

  12. #27
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    1" fiberglass but none on the board with the drivers. (5-sides). If you search the other M2 DYI thread there are pictures showing how various people have lined it (as well as a genuine M2).

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sguttag View Post
    1" fiberglass but none on the board with the drivers. (5-sides). If you search the other M2 DYI thread there are pictures showing how various people have lined it (as well as a genuine M2).
    Then, I deducted from somes posts and on kw55 video, seems a 1" fiberglass every where except
    - on the front panel from top to bottom
    - on the horizontal "low separator" between medium speaker area and ports area

    your feedback?

  14. #29
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    Hou can use Soniroll fiberglass, same as the one pos used that has similar density as the one used by JBL.
    I got it from Point P shop where you can order it.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dn92 View Post
    Hou can use Soniroll fiberglass, same as the one pos used that has similar density as the one used by JBL.
    I got it from Point P shop where you can order it.
    Yes, a good choice, but I did not succeeded to find any stock around Paris. Perhaps I can buy an old stock of a Diyer which did not used all his roll ;-)

    So I bought specific sound absorbant to make a test as from this WE:
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    And, I am doubtfully with the measures.
    a) I would have expected more changes with and w/o damping
    b)- 90Hz to 300Hz a bit too lower compared to the range 700-10k

    For M2's owner, do you have a similar result?


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    without damping

    Name:  rodec_outdoorII_vol30_digidamping.jpg
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    with Damping

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