I have two versions of Brothers in Arms... both sound great, but one is significantly louder than the other. Unfortunately I packed away the discs years ago and once again the metadata doesn't tell us much about these discs.Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Widget
Wolf,
Like Santana too, have a couple of theirs on LP and CD. These guys have rhythm and nice percussions... Yeah, Money for Nothing, like that also, on CD. I want my M-T-V...
As for the directions "just go South and turn right at The Loonies. (tho you mite not get back in ..)" i get the impression this might be the go around route, maybe trying to protect your imported beer from me? lol
Hi Widget,
Thanks for the extensive reply. Lots of food for thought there, specially for a mostly analog guy like me.
RE "are you comparing the CD to an analog vinyl record?" Sure am.
Except for record noise, i get along pretty well with the analog world, and CD quality sound (44.1khz/16 bit) suits me fine having the noise aspect out of the equation, though some "remakes" have disappointing sound.
I guess when an album was digitally made all the way (DDD) there's less issues, but when its an older analog one remastered to digital (AAD) then the surprises pop-up?
Your 2nd & 3rd paragraphs are particularly enlightning. I couldn't agree more with the statement "... the music industry has been very bad about communicating various mixes of an artist's work." and the rest, as i have a habit of reading an LP jacket or CD leaflet. Rarely see on a CD case "this is newly recorded (or remastered or remixed) previously released material". As you imply, its getting harder to know which is the real original version. I tend to go by dates but this can sometimes be misleading. Tricky industry...
Richard
have even seen some DAD's.
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles
Ok, so I dug out my original 1977 copy of Rumours… purchased prior to seeing them during that year’s tour.
I compared this LP, my original Rumours CD, my 24/96 rip, and a Tidal MQA version of the 1988 “Greatest Hits”.
The 24/96 isn’t bass heavy, in fact I would say it has a very similar sound to the LP, but it does have noticeably deeper bass when it is there. The original Rumours CD was remarkably similar sounding to the LP. Much closer than I would have thought… though 10 years ago I wouldn’t have said that as my digital playback wasn’t as good as it is today.
Now regarding the 1988 Greatest Hits album. I concur. It is thinner sounding than the other mixes. Hard to say why they would have done that, but it was a bit thinner sounding in the MQA version I had available.
Widget
Wolf,
I had done a little search on DDD & AAD CDs prior to posting. It said DAD CDs were rare, which i tend to believe because when you think of it AAD is a transition to digital, lot of music to transfer from old format to newer, while DDD was the new norm being used almost systematically. Doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for DAD, and why would it be used? Maybe for the "nostalgia" of mixing on a analog console, plus some studios have a lot of money invested in a legacy or custom console that some groups or engineers like to work on.
Btw, when i bought the small Allen & Heath console the conversation with my dealer rep initially went like this: looking for a small console to replace one of my old Mackies. So you're looking for a digital model. No, analog. WHAT? (looked at me as if i came from Zombie land, lol). Yes, A-NA-LOG. Are you sure? (still not convinced, so unusual nowadays) Yes, absolutely. OH, ok then... Service dept coordinator was standing next to us, younger guy about half my age, laughing and nodding (though younger he prefers analog mixer too and he may know a thing or two about reliability and repairs). We discussed various aspects and at that price point the A & H was the better made one (individual vertically mounted circuit board per channel strip, 100 mm Alps faders, Neutrick connectors, etc.).
Widget,
WOW! I'm impressed by the work you just did, could not have asked more. You didn't have to go that far. But it sure is an interesting comparison from another pair of ears using different gear.
RE "though 10 years ago I wouldn’t have said that as my digital playback wasn’t as good as it is today."
Well, my playback system isn't high rez 24/96 standard, rather LP and CD quality which may explain part of what i hear. However, as i said i'm satisfied with what i have, sounds good, not necessarily chasing the ultimate gear.
You're experiment proves that a remake or version is not automatically a "mirror image" of the other. The music industry still has some tricks up its sleeves.
Thanks a lot for the effort.
From JBL ad in Audio Magazine 04/1976. Simply a bit of nostalgia regarding JBL speaker systems pricing...
Decided to test my hearing with the equipment on-hand. Never tried this before. Not a scientific based method for testing but i assume it could give some indication about the state of my hearing. The headphones i have (Sennheiser 414X, 480 series 2 and HD25 Light) probably don't make it up to 20 khz and i'm sure the latter one isn't flat response, sounds somewhat like bumped bass and treble.
Used the test CD i have with the Tascam player, the rest is the usual gear except no speaker system, just tweeters. Thought the CD was the one announcing the frequencies going by but its not, it is on one of the test LPs i have. On the CD its a number of spot frequencies and the 20-20khz sweep is unannounced re frequencies played. Might try with the LP another time.
Used the Asian Hi-Vi Research tweeter pair alone, shown here before, since they have relatively flat response up to 25khz. Made a few feet quick set of cables to plug these directly in the amp (banana plugs). At tweeters end a series capacitor lead twisted with spkr wire and taped, being connected to driver terminals (no soldering but works fine). Kept it simple only temporary setup, plus started this late night. Was able to make the tweets stand up right as they should on top of a pair of tilted speakers using some pieces of 2X3" to hold (dome sound not impaired).
Since there's no crossover on these, took a pair of Solen capacitors in my stock for tweeter protection. These are real 4 ohm drivers, impedance curve is at that value for a good part and DCR is 3.9 ohm.
Went for 250V 4.7uF caps. Measured them to see tolerance and avoid a donkey. Pretty good: 4.72 and 4.73 uF . So a 6 db/oct. high-pass filter at about 8,250 hz. Somewhat high for a tweeter Fs at 1,600 hz but only a 6 db slope here. Quick rounded calculation: one octave lower (4khz) = -6 db, not enough, another octave lower (2khz) = -6 db again, so now -12 db at least at 2khz, thats better protection since didn't know ahead what volume would be used.
Tweets alone often sound so so, not a pleasing sound to listen to, due to peaks in response somewhere for example. Must say didn't get that impression at all this time, even played some music through these, they're pretty well balanced, not harsh sounding, that's nice. Didn't have time to test them before, except for DCR.
Well, i thought, and told Wolf, i figure i could hear VHF in the 15-16khz range. Doesn't seem to be the case... sniff. The 12.5 khz spot frequency i can hear. The 16 khz not convinced at all, even with some more power, don't think i hear it. The 20 khz forget it. So it appears the fall is somewhere in the 12.5-16 khz range. If i can hear 12.5 can probably hear 13 khz too being very close. Then makes sense to say i can hear in the middle of that range, would mean 14 khz, like Wolf...
My explanation of having some years less than Wolf and no military training noise appears to go out the window. My 63+ years catch up with me i guess, and aging being the probable reason behind the result. I repeated the 8-20 khz frequencies a few times, maybe to convince myself that it is what it is, lol. We all get there one day.
The consolation prize is that's not a professional made and controlled method like when going to see a hearing specialist to have this assessed, for industrial deafness compensation for example where - dbs = $.
RE Histeresis post #7: "Now turn the volume up and test again. At higher volumes you can hear better."
Going for higher sound volumes as suggested is kind of helping yourself to pass the test, sort of a cheat in my view. I think the right procedure in professional hearing tests is that some reference level is first set (e.g. 80 db @ 1 khz) then frequencies are fed to headphones and the person has to indicate hear/don't hear for each one. If didn't hear its over for this one (no level increase). If heard it then i assume the person has to indicate something about level, such as same, louder or softer than previous one.
1rst pic dome tweet with capacitor plus wiring with banana plugs, pieces of wood for picture purpose only, simply to prevent dome from touching the plywood (pretty close); 2nd pic showing the spot frequencies and sweep on the CD, the 4 hz and 8 hz seem pretty crazy here, can't hear those (more felt). Want bass? There ya go. Now find something that can reproduce these loud, EV's 30"? But this is earthquake territory, might bring the house down.
Richard
Just came across this tonight in a search which landed me at help.harmanpro.com (among other places).
Looks like JBL would have updated this list without fanfare... Don't know if LH site administrators are aware, haven't seen any mention here about this.
At the bottom of the list it says last modified March 23, 2021 by PRO Knowledge Base, pretty recent.
In case some haven't seen it i made a pdf of it. Hopefully it will go through for posting, file size is 2 MB.
Richard
JBL TS PARAMETERS 03-2021.pdf
In a recent search about Fane Acoustics drivers (Britain) came across this Fane European price list i forgot to post.
Its outdated, and certaily incomplete (many are missing), but still gives an idea about devices pricing level. Might be useful for some European colleagues.
The Sovereign series is the lower cost one, mostly with stamped frames and faston connectors, whereas the Pro series and some others have cast frames, push connectors, etc.
Richard
Fane Price List 12-2009.pdf
don't know where else to tuck these (just found on HD),
so, if not offending R , I'll drop them here.
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles
Wolf,
Doesn't offend me at all. Gear info and pricing the more we have the better! Even if outdated, since it still gives an idea of what it was worth back then, i.e. what a seller might have paid vs what he's asking for it nowadays...
Btw, do girls smile at you like that whenever you're on the bike? That might offend me a bit though since they don't do this to me. You must be the better looking one or have more charm...
yeah , uh-huh ...that must be it , for sureWolf,
Btw, do girls smile at you like that whenever you're on the bike? That might offend me a bit though since they don't do this to me. You must be the better looking one or have more charm...
believe it or not , that's from an old General Motors ad , showing how embarrassing it is to ride bike, and you should grow up and buy a car (preferably , one of theirs) ..so you can "get chicks" too.
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles
RE yeah , uh-huh ...that must be it , for sure
LOL. Or they don't smile at me because i do drive a GM!
Things have been somewhat straight and serious for a while around LH. Maybe "Covid constipation"?
GM ad, wow. The embarrassment might be theirs if they don't produce in a timely manner enough electric cars, and loads of people go for the bike instead as they do in some parts of Europe...
But i don't feel guilty at all for my emissions footprint since its 4 cyl. 1.4 L turbo ULEV engine, compared to others, plus very little KMs done in a year (normal around 3K, Covid year 1K, lol)
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