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Thread: MoD is playing with the Lansing heritage :-)

  1. #16
    Member MoD's Avatar
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    Thank You both. It will continue for shure.

    Nobody anything about 075? Oh well...

    This is graphs of 2445 drivers in those truncated tractix horn I have made. I have plate amplifier, mono channel with dsp which I am using for measurements. Dsp cut all frequencies below 500 Hz so it was not necessary to add passive crossover elements to cut the low frequencies ( I did the same when I measured 075 but it was cut everything below 2700 Hz)
    Measurement were made from 1 meter distance from the horn 0, 15, 30, 45, 60 degrees from axis.
    I am very satisfied with results.

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    This is graph of 4530 loaded with D130.

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    All measurement were conducted outside on open space.

    EDIT: @ gdmoore28; D130 was initially music reproduction driver (during fifthies) As JBL was expanding line of speakers, they came with more dedicated purpose speakers which were beter to use as music reproducers of part of music range, and D130 was advertised later as musical instrument driver. That does not make him bad for music reproduction, but it is heavy for implementation if you want to make it sound non vintage. It also has a lot of good aspects.
    I like history and what 130 series represent, and so I have decided to build my system around him.
    Knowing what I know now I would like to have 2227 drivers though.
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  2. #17
    Member MoD's Avatar
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    Diy worm forced me to boy a pristine pair of 2227 drivers , I have also dig Phonic PA active crossover and Peavey CS800X amplifier. Crossover point is now 500Hz, and with no passive elements sound is much better. Except hi tones. In this setup there is no good way to boost hi tones. I should get some DSP...

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    Peavey soon started to drift with DC offset, so I took him apart and started a refresh , and so...

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    Capacitors are leaking, and I will replace all electrolitic capacitors everywhere in the amp.
    This is the test of power supply filter capacitors, the rest is no better, and they have lost capacitance...

    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  3. #18
    Member MoD's Avatar
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    I was wondering for a long time...; How about some nice big bass horn. So, I took for start Jensen Imperial bulit in, and heavily modified it for D130. I call it MoD's Imperial MK1 During last year from local recycling yard I was collecting bigger pieces of furniture partical boards, and last week I have built one.

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    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  4. #19
    Member MoD's Avatar
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    Oh, it sound marvelous! Some fine tuning should be done, so it will be even MK3 version but I love it! Nothing beats big bass horn!

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTinH3QSk5g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFy64JSUO7I
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  5. #20
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    Wow MoD!

    Very Impressive!

    Yes, I think your 075 tweeters need to have installed some new ( 077 ) diaphragms .


  6. #21
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    Hi MoD,

    I'm very impressed, too, especially on your fibreglass/resin outcome. Your first mold might have been sticking due to it's surface which possibly might not have been smooth enough. But this is just an assumption, you know?

    Btw, in that other thread you've told that you've reconed K-130 baskets with aftermarket D-130 kits. Why? Aren't there K-130 aftermarket kits as well? Optionally you could have reconed them as K-140's, which aren't that sensitive, but provide much lower bass. And agreed, genuine kits are prohibitively expensive .

    OTOH and as yet said, a musical instrument driver most probably isn't the first choice as a HiFi speaker. Hence you might also have dropped 2205 recones into your alnico baskets which most probably will suit much better for your needs. Give your pristine 2227's a try also in your smaller bins and you'll see what I mean .

    Best regards!

  7. #22
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    @ Earl K

    Thank You.
    Jes, i should buy 077/2405 diaphragms.

    But..., 077/2405 has higher minimum crossover frequency. Too hi to reach D130 hi frequency reproduction capability. I would end with a hole in response.
    So I plan to go 001 system way.
    I am thinking about JBL 2425 compression driver. It should be close to 001 original 175 driver but cheaper. (Budget is limited )

    @ Kay Pirinha
    Thank You.
    Surface was smooth. I can't tell if it was smooth enough. I was thinking a lot about that problem and come to two conclusions: I made mistake to make full lamination at once. Piece was stiff and only two layers piece instead wood be wobbly enough so it could be "maneuvered" from mold, and when it is off mold lamination could be made to full layers. Second problem in parts of horn near to throat which can not be lifted from mold like mouth part which can, throat must slide off mold and first few centimeters two surfaces slide in almost paralel motion.

    Why D130 kits in K130 baskets? There is no smart explanation , I just wonted D130 and not K 130 or K140, or 2205 or...

    At start D130 was music reproducer. Soon JBL developed beter suited driver for that application, and D130 became popular instrument speaker.
    But, it can reproduce music. Put him big big horn and he can reproduce even The Prodigy's Charly (Trip in to bass and drum) with room shaking volume.
    I have tried 2227 in 4530. More bass output than D130, no lower than D130. Horn itself limits bass extension.
    But, in my version of Imperial D 130 has all bass I need, and 2227 is a bass monster.
    This is MoD's Imperial responce D130 loaded in open space away from walls
    Name:  MoD Imperial Mk1 D130 na otvorenom fullrange.jpg
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    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoD View Post
    I was thinking a lot about that problem and come to two conclusions: I made mistake to make full lamination at once. Piece was stiff and only two layers piece instead wood be wobbly enough so it could be "maneuvered" from mold, and when it is off mold lamination could be made to full layers. Second problem in parts of horn near to throat which can not be lifted from mold like mouth part which can, throat must slide off mold and first few centimeters two surfaces slide in almost parallel Motion.
    I don't think you've made a mistake. I also would have done it your way. The reason is that the resin you've used, being it epoxy or styrene, uses some very small amount of dibenzoylperoxide catalyst, or let's say it better, a donor of radicals. Hence it cures in a chain-growth polymerization that always leads to some shrinkage, even if you're laminating glass fiber with the resin. This would lead to warpage if the workpiece isn't stable or stiff enough in that state.

    Best regards!

  9. #24
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    That shrinkage could be a reason for horn stickin, specially on throath section. Need to destroy mould to get horn off really annoys me, and I found it unacceptable. So I have came to this conclusion (in theory for now); next time I will make only one or two layers of lamination, then horn goes of mould. After I take it of, I will apply some powder on mould and then put horn back in order to prevent worpage, and carry on with lamination to desired number of layers.
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  10. #25
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    Diy worm strikes again. I was forced to purchase 2344a horns with 2426 drivers attached to it. That opens a lot of options...
    Idea is tu use D130 in mk3 MoD's Imperial horn with 2344a/2426 for mid/hi; something like horn based 4430 only with higher crossover frequency (haven't decide yet, I will try 1800, 2400, 2800Hz and see what I like the most)

    Meanwhille, I could try to put 2344 on top 4530/2227 instead 2445 in those tractix.
    In Your experience, what would be upper crossover frequency to cross between 2227/2426? I have read that 4430 has some problems in upper bass/low midrange clarity. Can 2227 work nice to 1800 Hz?
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  11. #26
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoD View Post
    Can 2227 work nice to 1800 Hz?
    Since it is a 15" woofer, it will be inherently beamy at such a high frequency, this will set you up for a far less than ideal transition between the woofer and the compression driver.


    Widget

  12. #27
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    Meanwhile I have changed 2445 and diy tractix horns with 2344/2426 and have tried few cut frequencies. 1000 Hz works the best...

    Have anyone ever thought about loading LA Scala bass horn with 2227 driver? I am thinking to build one LA Scala and try, but if anyone has any experience, I would like to hear other opinions...
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  13. #28
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi MoD,

    RE "I would like to hear other opinions..."

    I suggest you contact Barry (1audiohack) with regards to Klipsch La Scala. I remember he had an opinion about that model but I can't recall the details of it. He's also familiar with the 2227. This might be your best lead. Regards,

    Richard

  14. #29
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Oh boy! Short and direct. No offense intended.

    First off, I have a couple of friends with LaScala's and, I think they sound like speakers in long pipes. They just do nothing for me.

    2227's don't knock me out as direct radiators. I have really tried.

    Crossing around 1K, 2220's. Over that? A 12" or 10".

    You might get somewhere with a 2123 at close to 2kHz with your 2344's.

    2344's really take some careful signal shaping to be their best.

    All the best!
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  15. #30
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Barry,

    I'm sorry my too quick post has caused you an inconvenience. It was not the intent. Will do differently next time. Regards,

    Richard

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