KM2

[Robh3606]

It's lots of fun to play with these ideas beforehand. If that is your real layout the Everest cabinets need to be inside.

It could look good, personally I would not do that. Subs are in utility cabinets for good reason. Half the time they end up hidden because of placement. What are you going to do if they don't work in your perfectly symmetrical lay out? Lot's of work to potentially be hidden and no gain in how it will sound.

What's your budget?? If you are open ended have at it.

The most important aspect of the system is how it sounds not how it looks.

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

The most important aspect of the system is how it sounds not how it looks.

That sounds like the point of view of an engineer. Not everyone will agree with that statement. For some the balance is reversed and for others aesthetics and performance are equally important.

Think of the success of the Paragon. It isn’t still a highly prized object due to its objective performance.


Widget

[Robh3606]

That sounds like the point of view of an engineer. Not everyone will agree with that statement. For some the balance is reversed and for others aesthetics and performance are equally important.

Think of the success of the Paragon. It isn’t still a highly prized object due to its objective performance.


Widget

Hello Widget

Your right but I was more addressing subwoofer cabinets not necessarily the whole system. Yes for the mains I completely agree. For subwoofer cabinets??

Unless you know before hand where they are going I would not waste time or money making them look cool. That's the point. You place subwoofers where they work, not look good.

Too pair them up is not a good idea. You have a much better chance of getting the low end correct by having 4 discrete subs and placing them as required. And your right it is a bit of the engineers point of view.

If you don't integrate the subs well it all for naught. It will completely screw up the overall system. That's what I meant when I said it should sound good.

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

You have a much better chance of getting the low end correct by having 4 discrete subs and placing them as required.

Agreed, a pair of subs will rarely give you optimal performance. In the dedicated rooms I’ve worked on we use in-wall solutions. We either build out the wall to accommodate massive subwoofers or we use lower profile yet still powerful subs. Sometimes these are located in corners, other times at midpoints or even combinations. A theater I am currently working on has 7 fully concealed subs.

These are the subs we use most often:

https://meyersound.com/product/x-400c/

https://www.wisdomaudio.com/product/scs-2/

https://www.jlaudio.com/products/iws...woofer-systems

The 18” 400C is the closest to a sub most here would recognize. These are obviously of a considerable size and have to go behind false walls, the other two are far more compact and can go into more typical walls.

From a purely aesthetic standpoint I don’t care what the subs look like, I would much rather have them concealed than sharing my visual space.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

This discussion made me think of a 2 channel system we have designed and are currently installing. In addition to the main speakers and subs, we have a pair of these VLF speakers hidden in the structure of the room to really wake up the room when the homeowner who has a passion for EDM, turns it up.


Widget

[Anti K]

If that is your real layout the Everest cabinets need to be inside.

No it's not of cause, the layout. The wild boar's head would be as well on the wall.
Just jokeing.

Real are the proportions and size Everest cabinets compared the size/shape of Subs. And ca size of sofa to get just imagination.

It would be our lounge area of our working place where we chat with boys and take our coffee-breaks. Maybe the coffee-beaks last sometimes a bit longer and 'transform' to another break. Then comes in the volume-knob...

If they do not play well, then have to mess with room.

MrWidget, You got my point! The Paragon-talk.

Robh3606, I understand totally what You say!

But, imagine for a moment a situation:
1) I do not subs
2) install into Everest cabs, for example, the AL1500s like originals (or, even bring in the house originals)
3) Mains play like mains play. Low end comes from same cabs!
Absolutely NO ANY POSSIBILITY to move low end sources nowhere else. Because 'Mains' and 'Subs' are built 2in1. Even worse. Tubes 'of Subs' are at rear side aswell!

Basically, customers who buy for $70T a pair of Everests, are not poor guys, have probably big balls with own vision of interior, architect made him a glass villa with sofas and stuff.
Not everyone wants to sit inside the basement darkness, specially designed claustrophobic 'listening room'. Vice Versa. They want expose the gear.
In term of sound they are in deep s*** then? 😝

And - looking at commercial photos of Everests - it's EXACTLY that way!
Brick with fat wallet buy more - a gear for another 70T.
And wants them - the best and expensive thing - right there, and not there... 150 grand and nothing?

Paradox.

Comapred to that, I do very-very easy, even sofa is in the middle, even palm-tree is behind the sofa not in front.
But, seriously, if Mains and Lows are side by side, basically as one big Fullrange.
They will not play equally enywhere in this room, no way, sure.
If I get it right on that sofa, I'm OK.

[Mr. Widget]

Not everyone wants to sit inside the basement darkness, specially designed claustrophobic 'listening room'. Vice Versa. They want expose the gear.

If I was asked to provide this space with killer sound, I would make these fairly subtle changes to your overall plan. You would not be changing the room from the open airy space it is to a dark cave, and you would keep the look clean and simple.

Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Mr Widget makes a good point.

Using dsp you have a degree of influence and control that can shape the bass from the main enclosures so you maintain sensible aesthetics.

If your ceiling is high like 4m you could mount the subs above and have a false hanging ceiling or not of pleasing design.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I agree with some of what you say.

Who owns Everest’s and how they are used is actually fairly random.

In Hong Kong and mainland China you will find Everest’s in rich mans big apartment, luxury homes and in high rise lockup where possessions are stored. Some listen from swivel office chairs. Crazy 😜.
The Western, European and Japanese cultures are each uniquely different in appreciation of sound reproduction.

The rooms l saw were not dedicated and the system was not always set up for best sound.
A few adjustments and furnishings can make a big difference if in fact sound is important.

[Anti K]

I would make these fairly subtle changes to your overall plan

Have heard only 5% of people have actual 3D thinking. Friend sayd, a real estate developer, people look at plans, make wise faces and nod - and buy a flat.
When built, peole go inside first time and ask - why this window is here, why door is not there... They actually didn't understood anything while buy !

(Same % is with math, who understands. Kick the formulas into head like poetry is not undertandings)

Widget, You are the WINNER
You belong into this 5%. I see only one here who looked at plan...

It's 3:40 in the night (actually morning already at my time) and do not ask questions. Despite have some, tiny.

But just say - it's doable!

[Ian Mackenzie]

I am so glad you and Mr Widget are getting along so well.

Mr Widget once described an experience that got him interested in audio.

Mr Widget connected a dozen LE15 woofers in series and then plugged them into the mains gpo and went outside to see how loud it was???

That was a defining moment for Mr Widget which allowed him to then question the way the rest of us listen to audio sound reproduction. Lol.

[Mr. Widget]

Mr Widget once described an experience that got him interested in audio.

Mr Widget connected a dozen LE15 woofers in series and then plugged them into the mains gpo and went outside to see how loud it was???

That was a defining moment for Mr Widget which allowed him to then question the way the rest of us listen to audio sound reproduction. Lol.

Interesting recollection, but it must have been another Widget. I have never tortured LE15As in that manner and never owned a dozen of them.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Widget, You are the WINNER

Well, this sort of thing is what I do everyday as part of my job... I am very good at spending other people’s money.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Interesting recollection, but it must have been another Widget. I have never tortured LE15As in that manner and never owned a dozen of them.


Widget

You told me the story over dinner in 2004. It was back in your days at college or University. Them was wild times. That maybe why you don’t recall?

[Mr. Widget]

You told me the story over dinner in 2004. It was back in your days at college or University. Them was wild times. That maybe why you don’t recall?

I would submit either you don’t remember the conversation precisely or I was telling you a tall tale. I am not in the habit being that “creative”, but maybe I was pulling your leg? I have no idea.

Interesting story though.


Widget