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  1. #166
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    10...12 midwoofer

    Have heard here suggestions, there are better choices for mid than 2216Nd.

    What choices I have? Please suggestions, who knows. New models, purchaseable, like 2216, 2269 etc,
    (not very interested bargain at second hand market with Vintage stuff)

    Some re-arrangements came in. I'm surprised even myself.
    For HF goes the Radian 951Be and for low will probably play 2PCS of 2216Nd.

    There is a possibility to add a MF - if it makes a sense, some (10) 12 inch.
    What about 2262? Neo, Dual...

  2. #167
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    500sqm?!

    Well if your space is that big I would go full unfolded horn anyways. That's the king route if the space is there...

  3. #168
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    2262h

    Shortly - how many octaves is suitable for driver?

    Had to rearrange things.
    There would be (per channel) 2PCS of 2269s as SUBs separately.

    Main enlosures 2x2216 and 4''BeCD.
    (Ok, some ribbon at top too, probably Beyma 150, not important now)

    Does somebody used 2262H or knows about it?
    2216 and 2262 seems to be same 'family', both 3'' VC DiffDrive. Though 2262 is mostly used in PA.
    Tech note says it's replacement for 2206... like, quite high points!?
    Stage-folks write, 2262 sounds bit warmer ... but they weld them as hell as well, too.

    Basically, this 12inch is 2x lighter MMS and 1,7x smaller SQ , roughly than 2216Nd (like a 12" version 2216Nd?)
    Is there a point to assemble it as MID below 4''BeCD?
    (one more cross, one more amp)

    - My concern is, if CD starts as low as 750Hz, it has to cover quite many octaves . If rise cross frequency , then: is the 2216 able go clean as high as 900...1000Hz?
    - Another concern is, due to height limitations, I can assemble 2x2216 side-by-side (below horn). It means one will play wider range up to CD and another one parallel just low part (up to where?) ; both in same enclosure, it's weird for me (however it's done even in Everest like this).
    Maybe better cross
    300/900/12000
    (2x2216 + 2262 + 4CD + Ribbon)
    15inch does max 3 octaves , 4CD does bit less than 4 octaves. Or isn't it a topic nowadays anymore...?

    From the other side, today we have opportunity purchase decent amp-blocks as much as we want, make active 48dB slopes just clicking on screen, play with delays...

  4. #169
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Is it desecration of holiness?
    Or - it's been a while. Now we can go fully active.
    Have read, even JBL wanted make them 3-amp compatible and today also 476 is replaced, so... don't hit me too hard, folks...
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  5. #170
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    What happens behind the grille cloth, stays behind the grille cloth? Good luck with that here.

    I seem to recall Greg (at one point) had his system set up with 4 separate amps (one OEM/Pascal per woofer, Jadis on mids, and a 'vintage' integrated running the tweeter... that last part seemed to be almost a point of pride in being both good -and- sufficient).

    It's only wood and a baffle board... If you change your mind later. Give yourself some modification space/options with the bracing.

  6. #171
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Something happened:
    I got a oportunity purchase E original cabinets
    Last ones came out from EU factory. Was an auction years ago and now somehow a pair landed in my room.

    Remember when I first time looked the pictures of these Everests, I was shocked because of the aestetics!
    The logic! Round backwall eliminating standing waves, round frontwalls as well in role of horn.
    I know, M2 lens today does probably better but...

    This purchase messed up my plans. Or, Universe made some 'corretions'.

    Now I'm scraching my head what 'will stay behind the grill'. Or, like You said, some 'wood and baffle board' just changed a bit:
    Tall Monsters transformed to Wide Monsters.
    Easyest way (and imho not bad at all) is probably use 2x2216ND. And 4''Be of cause.
    And add some SUB18 into DIY 'furniture'.
    Not as much for make a crazy noise but because of separate bandwidth by intended drivers. Room is big too.
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    Last edited by Anti K; 03-10-2021 at 03:03 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #172
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    Give yourself some modification space/options with the bracing
    I basically have excellent oportunity nominate as stupidest design.
    Add a MID as 2262 in the middle there and later (if 2216 outperforms it) - fully active - 'tune' it mute...

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    one OEM/Pascal per woofer, Jadis on mids, and a 'vintage' integrated running the tweeter
    ... mmm, the 4'' CD has +110dB sensi at listenable area, yes You are damn right, some tube can run it with ease
    Some 8000W peak DIY 'furniture', some 0,000%THD Eigentakt for Mid and some Tube for Beryllium; I think it's time to take my pills now...

  8. #173
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Am I reading you correctly that you managed to get a pair of empty E cabs DD66000
    that came from the Hornslet factory in DK. WOW

    Got any pictures for the people in the good seats ?

  9. #174
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    any pictures for the people in the good seats ?
    I like that sports too. Sittin' & Watchin'

    ' for the people in good seats ! '
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  10. #175
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Here's the original wind up of Hornslet for anyone who didn't see it at that time.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...light=Hornslet

    So Anti , what's your plan for these ?

  11. #176
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    So Anti , what's your plan for these ?
    Very shortly: make them play.

    Secondly, do it with respect and carefully because I admire so much the wise built and shape of these. The most beautiful speakers to my eyes.

    Third, the wood needs repaire works anyway, so basically is same work to glue there new, or Walnut or Wenge or Teak - or, I have easy access to 'Rolls-Grade' paintwork; most probably they get gloss-paint-finish in the future.

    But foremost, before I start anything, there is one crazy idea I do not want to split it out until I'm sure it works. It takes some time and work and measurements.

    Do not go 1:1 clones. But do not want to make them ugly and naive as well...

    Here is a interesting pal in Norway, made 2 pairs of Everests, firstly clones and second ones active. And then started add pair of 18'' subs because low end didn't hit enough...
    Well, sure, what to expect from 4x15''. Weak, sure!
    https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet...d.62948/page-6

  12. #177
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Have heard here suggestions, there are better choices for mid than 2216Nd.

    What choices I have? Please suggestions, who knows.
    Meanwhile. I repeat my question. Got suggestions to think about better Mid-Opportunities than 2216Nd.
    (yes, there is a point - a 140 gram cone is maybe too heavy for nearly 1000Hz)

    Please, examples.
    2262?
    2169?

    Both have same new motor structure. For 2262 is some info out there but for 2169 cannot find anything.

    In other words, if recreate 4350 with less footprint.

  13. #178
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Meanwhile. I repeat my question. Got suggestions to think about better Mid-Opportunities than 2216Nd.
    (yes, there is a point - a 140 gram cone is maybe too heavy for nearly 1000Hz)

    Please, examples.
    2262?
    2169?

    Both have same new motor structure. For 2262 is some info out there but for 2169 cannot find anything.

    In other words, if recreate 4350 with less footprint.
    There isn’t a better woofer than the 2216 provided you understand how to use it

    Maximum crossover frequency 750 hertz.

    So mate it with a 1.5 or 2 inch compression driver and a horn with loading to 650 hertz or below.

    Mating a driver to a higher cut off frequency horn won’t work subjectively. It just wont work.

    Either a Yuichi or Joseph Crowe 650 hertz horn and you are done.

    If you want a 1500 crossover point think 2123 10 inch mid cone and an extended bass woofer like a 2245 or dual 2235H drivers. The 2216 would be wasted in that situation.

    If you check out the vintage Westlake monitors that is exactly what they did.

    But you need a reasonable size room.

    18Sound do a nice elliptical horn and a one inch compression driver which is very nice. Trolls in Europe did a nice monitor along those lines.

    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm

  14. #179
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    There isn’t a better woofer than the 2216 provided you understand how to use it

    Maximum crossover frequency 750 hertz.

    So mate it with a 1.5 or 2 inch compression driver and a horn with loading to 650 hertz or below.
    Thanks! I feel I already looking a'bit that way, too...

    Please advise - Your opinion. Below is 4367 graph - shortly, just ugly in mid-region.
    Of cause, if active, it's not a question to EQ these drops.

    / I'm confused about D2430 driver, how bad they measure raw, without EQ.
    It's like low end - when there is no capabilities, You can rise actively as much as You want, it its not capable...
    it's like the story: You can feed the wolf as you want, bear's d*** is bigger anyway. /


    How You feel, is that drop of 4367 becuse of 2216Nd-1 (not 2216Nd), or because of HF D2430 (not a smooth 4inch CD), or why? Just Your subjective thoughts.
    I'm gathering this 'puzzle' together in my head.

    When old-school, passive, then basically we 'pushed' all down to the lowest sensi part of whole system; then we got nice graph. By reduce.
    Now, active, if some driver has -6dB drop, nobody starts to 'push down' all bandwith. Despite, we rise this driver's this region 6dB = kick in 2X more energy! And good, if the drop is only 6dB, not 12... and we ask, why this thing doesn't sound not as effortlessly and so on..

    And one more thing: You name old-good 2123 mid cone.
    What about newer designs 2262 , 2250, 2169 ?
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  15. #180
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Just a suggestion , JBL 2206H for your mid. Very nice flat response where you need it.

    https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elemen...h-j-data-sheet

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