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  1. #376
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    more from SKYTONEAUDIO

    https://skytoneaudio.en.made-in-china.com/product/AMbxBPoVfqhy/China-2265HPL-15-Speaker-DJ-Differential-Drive-Neodymium-Woofer.html

    or other drivers types
    http://www.skytone-audio.cn/enproducts.asp?id=150
    2206, 2262, 2265, 2268, 2452, 2408, 2407, 2431...

    All of them, may be, are not copy, but JBL OEM "original" ready for local market. I would not expect that Mexican "plant" would produce better quality then China plant.If QC is good, then all the driver motors and baskets or phase plugs are not "rocket science". Even titanium dome diaphragms or bass cone are more or less standard products.


    regards
    ivica
    It is common practice in China for OEMs to "make a few more" or even "make a lot more" after their daily runs for their proper corporate customers. They will sell the extra made ones at local pricing and at a much higher margins than what their stingy shave the dime corporate customers dictates. However, while I'd have no problem buying handbags or purses with that route, I would be a bit wary doing that with a speaker driver. It is also common practice for OEMs to substitute lower quality material for handbags, I won't want that if they do that to the voice coil or cones of my speaker driver.

    Furthermore, some of these might be the drivers that failed QC, they have to dispose of them somehow afterall.

  2. #377
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    At relatively low volume levels it’s not an issue.
    Then it's an issue. I'm far from relatively low levels.

    It was IMHO 1audiohack who nicely pointed out that he's understandigs about LOUD and LOW are 'a bit different'. That's a good point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    The key is having a horn that will load the driver properly at and below the crossover point.
    Nothing extraordinary: Simple 4367 Lens mated conventional large format CD like Radian 951 Beryllium (same as 476Be according to Guido)

    Giving him some extra 'breathing' to handle highs, I rise abit crosspoint - by assemble close, right centre below horn a good MID.
    Like one Mid-High unit from 300-10kHz.
    All old good rules / with new good parts.
    _________________

    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Anti K, using a lowmid can be rewarding, but

    Here are a few points to consider when choosing such a driver:
    - choose the diameter based on the directivity and crossover frequency with the horn
    - choose the highest sensitivity driver that still has enough excursion to go down to the woofer crossover at your target SPL and distortion.
    - choose a cone that does not show any major breakup artifacts up to 1/2 oct above your horn crossover (more or less, depending on the slope there)
    - choose a good modern motor *or*, better still, use a current drive amp (transconductance) to reduce distortion in the mids
    (while fully active, can change cross-points anytime / actually it's going 5-way - UHF will have separate amp as well while I do not know how when and where I'd like to make HF/UHF cross - Beyma TPL150 is serious beast and can handle with ease couple kHz all te way up,
    question only is where it outperforms 4''beryllium CD)

    Have in mind rise crosspoint of HF 4''CD a little higher (1000Hz+) to give 4''CD more 'space' handle with next 3-4 octaves of HF.
    Seems to me 10inch may be safer choice than 12 inch? Band 300-1000Hz. Because of wavelength aroung of highest Freq.
    Wavelength of 1100Hz is 12 inches...
    Other hands, K2S9900 has crosspoint 900hz - wavelenght of 900Hz is exactly diameter of 15'' !!??


    Read a forum where was a 'battle of Monster Mid's' or something like that. Actually, 2123 was also there!. Showed lowest 3rd harmonics!
    Very good result from every corner show a Beyma 10MC700Nd.
    And person who measured, later listened and comment the sound is clean as 'splits the ears'.

    Beyma as a producer likes more and more in time. Ribbon for UHF whatever I look, coming back to their TPL150.
    It seems they have some deal with JBL, they recreate and sell legacy JBL thing quite officially.

    pos, does this amp gets Your blessing ?
    (plan use it BTL for MID)
    https://www.hypex.nl/product/nc502mp-oem/77
    / ... nearly frequency independent distortion behaviour and very low radiated and conducted EMI.
    Control is based on a phase shift controlled self-oscillating loop taking feedback only at the speaker output /
    Last edited by Anti K; 05-02-2021 at 11:04 PM. Reason: type

  3. #378
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Simple 4367 Lens mated conventional large format CD like Radian 951 Beryllium (same as 476Be according to Guido)
    I wonder how he came to that conclusion.


    Widget

  4. #379
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I wonder how he came to that conclusion.
    Widget
    Testing
    https://www.behringer-electric.de/tr...1pb-beryllium/

    No wonder we found Everest has now Rad_951 inside instead 476

    Rad951 have even 5split phase plug as TAD

  5. #380
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Testing
    Maybe, I would prefer to see more thorough testing performed by someone who isn’t potentially biased. (Not the exclusive Radian dealer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    No wonder we found Everest has now Rad_951 inside instead 476
    Because the Radian is relatively inexpensive?

    Mind you, I am not disputing the claims by Guido, or the probability that Radian will offer better support than JBL does these days, but I am skeptical. That said, since the 476Be and TAD TD-4003 are both NLA, I hope this pans out.


    Widget

  6. #381
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    That’s a good point.

    18 Sound have a very nice Be driver too that Guido recommended. So does Radian. There are reviews in Voice Coil of some of these drivers.


    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm


    If you look at Troels Diy loudspeakers 4 way Loudspeaker One he tested several 18Sound drivers and matched a compact 18 Sound elliptical wave guide with an 18 Sound compression driver.

    You can buy a kit as l understand it

    Can l suggest you don’t go crazy on your first set up drivers and put money into a good a active crossover. There is a company called DEQX who have been around for a while now with some good product. The BSS are also good

  7. #382
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm

    If you look at Troels Diy loudspeakers 4 way Loudspeaker One he tested several 18Sound drivers and matched a compact 18 Sound elliptical wave guide with an 18 Sound compression driver.

    You can buy a kit as l understand it
    I'd suggest to Mr. Troels Gravesen to build a proper system at last.
    After years of measuring toys.

    He had to leave a stellar MID because it's impossible mate it with lazy SUBsonic. There has to be a fast bass below 10NDA610N (and he was wondering why JBL made cross at 300).
    Take a proper CD not 1,75'' titanium - it's not a toy though. But it's on half-way to the real world.
    Instead plate-amp with small supply take a serious AMP, if Hypex then NC2K OEM with supply SMPS3KA700 for subsonics and so on, all 4 or 5-way fully active.

    But, maybe he's computer is analog, too... ? Maybe even passive.

    Everybody does own thing.

    When mine is done, I can maybe sell him a kit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    18 Sound have a very nice Be driver too
    One large format Be they have
    ND4015BE

    I'll dig what they are. Price is almost same as Radian. I think it could be hard to separte them in blind test.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Can l suggest you don’t go crazy
    No, You don't.

    Flying to South Pole there is a point where pilot has to decide, fly further or back. Point is, weather changes on Pole rapidly. If not to turn back in THAT minute you cannot later either (no fuel to turn back later).
    I crossed the point years ago...

    Got info my Lenses are in EU and Everest cabs wait for mates...

  8. #383
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Maybe, I would prefer to see more thorough testing performed by someone who isn’t potentially biased. (Not the exclusive Radian dealer)
    Well, not impossible it will be me
    My 4367 Lens want some mate anyway ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Because the Radian is relatively inexpensive?

    Mind you, I am not disputing the claims by Guido, or the probability that Radian will offer better support than JBL does these days, but I am skeptical. That said, since the 476Be and TAD TD-4003 are both NLA, I hope this pans out.

    Widget
    I agree Guido may be biased, or was, theoretically, legally.
    From the other hand, he's measurements and cumulative garphs are out there and they should be objective as science.
    And, these are only ones available ... or I didn't read off all internet yet...

    Leavig Guido as person, talking just product Radian, it's not a rookie producer, imho musicians respect these Dia's for longer time already.
    Radian 950/951 has a 5-spit phase plug as TAD.
    476 and Eighteen 4inch have 4 split.

    But yeah, from 3 You named above , only 1 has a very good feature - available

  9. #384
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    Radian 951 still has 1.4" exit, pretty sure the 4367 horn will be 1.5"

  10. #385
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Yes, JeffW, it is

    Have to make special flanges anyway due to a tricky install of Compression Driver inside the Everest cab.
    Lens have to fix expectedly with epoxy (= forever) as handmade and if I'm seeking some seamless aesthetics.

  11. #386
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Yes, JeffW, it is

    Have to make special flanges anyway due to a tricky install of Compression Driver inside the Everest cab.
    Lens have to fix expectedly with epoxy (= forever) as handmade and if I'm seeking some seam7less aesthetics.
    Hi Anti K ,
    owing to the different diaphragm suspension on Jbl 476Be and Radian 951 , I would expect different HF response over 10kHz.
    Regards
    ivica

  12. #387
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    10'' mid

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Looking at the vintage 4 ways the best part of those systems in my mind were the 10" drivers used
    I'm in same boat with that



    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Anti K, using a lowmid can be rewarding
    / ... /
    - choose the diameter based on the directivity and crossover frequency with the horn
    - choose the highest sensitivity driver that still has enough excursion to go down to the woofer crossover at your target SPL and distortion.
    - choose a cone that does not show any major breakup artifacts up to 1/2 oct above your horn crossover (more or less, depending on the slope there)
    - choose a good modern motor *or*, better still, use a current drive amp (transconductance) to reduce distortion in the mids
    Same comment as previous I did.
    Plus, about the last sentence, the amp: does THIS one 'gets Your blessing' (BTL, one bridged block for one 10'' cone)
    nearly frequency independent distortion behaviour and very low radiated and conducted EMI. Control is based on a phase shift controlled self-oscillating loop taking feedback only at the speaker output.
    https://www.hypex.nl/product/nc252mp-oem/76




    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    It's not politics, it is science. And a little bit or art.
    / ... /
    If you are interested in building cool furniture you are in the wrong forum.
    / ... /
    Time to pay attention.
    Have a nice day You too.
    ___________________


    One 'artistic person' made some 'politics' on dozen of cones and illustarted he's speech with some pictures. And wrote:
    10MC700Nd is just so clean at what I would already call ear-splitting levels.

    I think it's more resulting way to start choose something - looking what somebody already dig out, than buy dozens of rubbish and measure ... until wife divorce.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #388
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Anti K,

    I am wondering where you get the time to Blog so much?

    Over 380 posts later and your still questioning the right solution in spite of numerous recommendations because no one will tell you what you want to hear 👂.

  14. #389
    Senior Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    your still questioning the right solution in spite of numerous recommendations because no one will tell you what you want to hear
    My previous post wasn't question. It was an answer.

    Person found resources to put 11 (eleven, sic!) top things, available on market today, side-by-side. I think it's quite valuable work.
    (Actually 10 from market + JBL 2012H, which makes me personally the test even more thrustable. JBL btw showed lowest 3rd HD)
    ________________

    Someone just told me, don't be so sad it wasn't you...

  15. #390
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    My previous post wasn't question. It was an answer.

    Person found resources to put 11 (eleven, sic!) top things, available on market today, side-by-side. I think it's quite valuable work.
    (Actually 10 from market + JBL 2012H, which makes me personally the test even more thrustable. JBL btw showed lowest 3rd HD)
    ________________

    Someone just told me, don't be so sad it wasn't you...
    I read that post 6 months ago when l was looking for a mid bass driver. I would take those diy tests with a grain of salt.

    I ended up talking to the application engineers at B&C loudspeakers.

    The B&C application engineers recommend this driver for new projects because itís got flexibility to suit a range of applications. The specs are also excellent.

    If you lock yourself into a very specific pro driver thatís made to suit one application it might not necessarily be your next choice particularly if you donít yet have a clear design at this point in time.

    https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/l...-0/8/10mbx64-8

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