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Thread: KM2

  1. #1
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    KM2

    K2 is beauty. But to clone quite difficult, due to find original parts and build proper lens. M2 is a ... it's question of taste.
    But more I look at just M2 lens, more I like it.
    Think I found what to build to myself. M2 drivers and Hypex Fusion in mind.
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  2. #2
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    First drafts.
    Make a clone of K2 is too ambitious to me.
    So: project inspired of K2.

    6 layers of 4mm veneer bend on inner stucture. Layer by layer, nice relaxing work.
    Have to consult, maybe thin MDF.

    Inner structure consists of 4 thick arcs, fixed with steel rods.
    Should be quite rigid. Reminds me a'bit of building a ancient ship
    Calculated inner volume 150ltr.
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  3. #3
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    2430 vs 2430

    Please anybody explain difference. There is some "another" D2 and special D2 models for M2...

    Or, as it is already no-clone (but inpired) project... maybe go with 4'' beryllium. 1,4 throat version paired with M2 lens.
    I don't worry much the highest end, but cristal-clear "brass" would be nice indeed.
    And if needed, I saw here interesting idea where tweeter was ímplemented into M2 edge.
    Low would be 2216Nd, thats seems to be pretty sure.
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    I believe these have same specs. The one of the left is earlier production run and the one on the right is current. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

  5. #5
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Left one is for VTX series and right one (yellow label) genuine M2.
    Different dia's?

    Other option - 4" Truextent Be @ M2 lens

  6. #6
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    2216Nd + 4''CD + tweeter

    -
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    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Now I like the result.

    It's time to enjoy carpender works.
    Hope 4''Be would be the star of this project.
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    There might be a picture mixup somewhere, possibly at Speaker Exchange, but the early D2's definitely had the lighter or white label and said "patent pending". See this post: #1513


    Quote Originally Posted by Anti K View Post
    Please anybody explain difference. There is some "another" D2 and special D2 models for M2...

    Or, as it is already no-clone (but inpired) project... maybe go with 4'' beryllium. 1,4 throat version paired with M2 lens.
    I don't worry much the highest end, but cristal-clear "brass" would be nice indeed.
    And if needed, I saw here interesting idea where tweeter was ímplemented into M2 edge.
    Low would be 2216Nd, thats seems to be pretty sure.

  9. #9
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    ... was thinking. And reading this forum, got knowldges from members here.

    Idea was pairing 4'' dia with M2 lens, 2216 for midbass.
    Member Rob nicely proved this conf, 2-way monitor without tweeter nicely works (476+2216). Rob also proved it takes time
    Inpired by huge fullrange like 4345 plan add a 2269 too.

    Hope HiEnd producers sooner or later realize there are people out there who actually want to see as well, what they listen (in stereo). I'm oldschool. 35y back hold the cover of LP while listening, today I'd like to see this cover on TV (this is a instrument for visuals, quite nice picture, with some un-understandable things inside as receiver and speakers...).
    Shortly, why there is still so few preamps on market with HDMI ARC. Rob found Emotiva.
    All my stuff is in my laptop ...
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  10. #10
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Drawing MDF details for enclosure.
    Does anyone know exact measures of woofers, mm, pls...?
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  11. #11
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...p?33565-2216Nd

    I’d expect the frame (other than depth) to require something very close to other current JBL 18” drivers. If you -really- need measured values, let me know.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hp?22679-2269h

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    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Except for the impressing front view of those monsters I would stay clear of such combination. There is really no need for a 15" over a 18", even if it looks cool.

    I like the K2 S9800/9900 cabinet idea.

    2226 cannot really be compared to the 2216Nd woofer. The latter sounds clearly better in the midrange. JBL has made many good woofers and many excellent mid-woofers but 2216 is unique in combining both services in to one driver. -And it took JBL 20 years to get there.

    If you do decide to go subwoofer (18” or other) I would clearly recommend 2206 or 1400PRO that are both very capable mid-woofers at the cost of low VLF output.

    IMHO the 2216 does not need any additional VLF driver or a subwoofer even at high listening levels ( add a little PEQ at the bottom in the DSP). Go listen to them if you have not yet had the chance. Many friends have sold their SUB18’s as they do not need them, except for high volume cinema use (LFE).

    There are M2 drivers (2430K) with both Yellow and Silver labels (I have had both). Some of the Vertec D2's are not the same impedance. The correct M2 D2's do have a label on the side and are marked in the back with part no #5032754. Are there any difference? That has been debated, but it is likely that JBL labels those production units with the best tolerances M2. I have not had any non M2 D2’s so I can’t compare.

    I prefer the 4” drivers to the D2’s and you can use 2450SL or 2451SL with very good results. Not sure about the 2452 as they are thinner and may sport a different phasing plug. 2453 does not work so well in these WG’s but can be helped by introducing a spacer. However, that does not produce the same result as the others. 476 in all forms would also be an excellent choice.

    You can use Mg (if you find them) or SL diaphragms in a two way set-up with very good results. Or you can use Be’s (what I do in one system) but then I would recommend adding an UHF driver. I use 045’s on K2 S9900 horns. They are CNC’d into the M2 WG’s as you have drawn.

    Regarding XO there are really not any alternatives to DSP. JBL 4367 are passive but to get to that level in a DIY is probably very difficult. Mind that JBL even had to make a different WG to pull it off.

    Of all alternatives available I would recommend using a BSS Soundweb unit. They are cheap second hand and extremely flexible. The algorithms used in them are better than most, even if the HW probably is similar to other high quality units. Skip Hypex, amp build in DSP’s and MiniDSP. Not for the HW but for the algorithm implementation. Pricing is reasonable the same and neglectable in the build you seem to be planning.

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    My 25 cents
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  13. #13
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Exact measures

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...p?33565-2216Nd

    I’d expect the frame (other than depth) to require something very close to other current JBL 18” drivers. If you -really- need measured values, let me know.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hp?22679-2269h
    Yes, please, if You can measure.

    I think too, the frame is close to previous 18'' but if CNC already does the work and then later it does not fit ... :-(
    This time I do vice-versa: starting with enclosures, the most expensive and time consuming part.

  14. #14
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    Except for the impressing front view of those monsters I would stay clear of such combination. There is really no need for a 15" over a 18", even if it looks cool.
    It not for reason it's cool. It's cool also, sure. A hint: my 'listening room' is 5000 sq.feet...
    A facility, We do our work and listen sometimes some backround music.
    And often I stay alone in the evenings there and ... make some noice. No wifes, no neighbors.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    I prefer the 4” drivers to the D2’s and you can use 2450SL or 2451SL with very good results. Not sure about the 2452 as they are thinner and may sport a different phasing plug. 2453 does not work so well in these WG’s but can be helped by introducing a spacer. However, that does not produce the same result as the others. 476 in all forms would also be an excellent choice.
    Agree. Read this forum long time and 4''Be is the target for sure. First choice is of cause 476 but I'm not too optimistic to get them. Next choice - like fellow Ivica recomended that fellow Guido recomended: get Radian 951 . Well, I'm like JBL-biased...
    Will see, enclosures take time.

  15. #15
    Member Anti K's Avatar
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    Sry, not ivica, pos comment it was:

    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Guido recommends the Radian 950PB driver which is supposed to be better thanks to its 5-slit phasing plug.


    One thing is unclear for me: 66000, 67000 have UHF crossed at 20kHz. I'm capable listen somewhere 15-16...

    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    read somewhere that they Marketing and Engineering Depts argued over adding the tweeter. Marketing wanted it for the Japanese market, and Engineering didn't feel it added anything to the system acoustically Attachment 62027
    Plan is (now)
    4''Be / M2 lens.
    2216 / closed box ca 2 cubic feet.
    2269 / box 7,5-8 cub.feet.
    Cross ca 800-900 / 80-90. Active.
    The question is closed box for 2216. Did it somebody before? Is there any risk of overheat? As it's well damped: it means it keeps heat as well in the box 'nicely'?

    Andy

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