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Thread: Building a 4343 Clone

  1. #1
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    Building a 4343 Clone

    Hi there
    I am starting out to build a pair of 4343 speakers.
    My thoughts are, that wether or not to build the 4343B or the 4343A, depends on what kind of 10" I source(2121A or 2121H - I would prefer Ferrit magnets as I do not have remag capabilities on hand).

    I am of course aiming towards sourcing the following:
    2405
    2121
    2231

    2420 + horn + lens (I have these already)

    And then build the 3143 network (Or the Charged coupled network, before I can source the original).

    I would very much like the speakers to look and sound as the 4343 speaker, as they were built "back then" - not doing something different that makes them something else.

    Just to be clear, (Because I have possibility to buy both 2122H and 2235H speakers) How different are these, in terms of the final product?
    Would you, knowledgeable people here, consider that to be wrong, or are they compatible replacements for the 2121 and 2231 drivers.

    It could be a point of "getting going" in the project, to buy 2122h and 2235H for now, build the speaker and then keep watch for 2121 and 2231 drivers along the way. But not if they are sonically "wrong".

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santashooter View Post
    Hi there
    I am starting out to build a pair of 4343 speakers.
    My thoughts are, that wether or not to build the 4343B or the 4343A, depends on what kind of 10" I source(2121A or 2121H - I would prefer Ferrit magnets as I do not have remag capabilities on hand).

    Just to be clear, (Because I have possibility to buy both 2122H and 2235H speakers) How different are these, in terms of the final product?
    Would you, knowledgeable people here, consider that to be wrong, or are they compatible replacements for the 2121 and 2231 drivers.

    It could be a point of "getting going" in the project, to buy 2122h and 2235H for now, build the speaker and then keep watch for 2121 and 2231 drivers along the way. But not if they are sonically "wrong".
    Okay

    I will go first

    The short answer is if you can obtain a 2122H use it as in a 4344 at a later date or put it on ice.

    I Will gladly buy it off you later. These are now impossible to obtain

    The 2122 is a smoother driver than the 2121 with somewhat different frequency response

    It has a somewhat different passive crossover as a result

    The devil is in the detail

    Itís a good upgrade path if you have a clapped out old 4343.

    The 2235 is the full SF conversion from alnico. The Vc has a higher power rating and the spider if l am not wrong is progressive. But itís tuning and everything else make it interchangeable with a 2231a

    My suggestion is acquire the 2122H now along with the 2235H to get you going.

    Build the baffle as a 4343 and use a new equivalent 3145 passive crossover for now.

    Buy a DR162425 diaphragm and put in the 2420 or buy a 2425 compression driver as the 3145 crossover is optimised for this driver.

    When you later acquire a 2121 then use it with a clone 3143 network for the purposes of authenticity

    You could then decide what to do with the 2122. I would build a 4345 authentically

    This is my rational.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Ian - that goes well along the lines of my thoughts!

    I don't think I will change the diaphragms in my 2420's though as these are with red wax seals, and sounds amazing as is.
    Would putting foam surround on a pair of LE10A be a better option, in terms of matching the 2121 frequency response, so I can use the 3143 crossover and keep the 2420 diapragms?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    No leave the existing surround


    The LE 10a and the 2121 are 10 inch drivers
    That is where the similarities end

    The reference efficiency of the LE10a is 0.6%
    The reference efficiency of the 2121 is 2.7%

    That wonít stop you trying the LE10a

    The crossover wonít be optimised but you can try it.

    The sensitivity of the 2420 and the 2405 will be way higher so the Lpads will need turning back -10 dB or more.

    The LE10a will go lower

    You can build a 2121 using after market recone kits and finding a suitable 10 inch basket

    See the 4343 reference thread

    I would not trash the LE10a. In fact l would look at building a 4313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    You can build a 2121 using after market recone kits and finding a suitable 10 inch basket
    I would normally look away from ever using an aftermarket kit, but this sounds interesting - I can't find the post/thread though?

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    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    Using Google, the search feature in the forum is not very good.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...erences-Thread
    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Using Google, the search feature in the forum is not very good.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...erences-Thread
    Oh I found the thread, but not the post about using an aftermarket 2121 kit, with good results

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post391415

    An E110 basket might work but needs to be confirmed

    You need to contend with the authenticity on two fronts, component authenticity and performance authenticity.

    In attempting to build a 2121H for example from another basket you will have conflicting aims as on the one hand you might get the performance but you won't have driver authenticity as its not a 2121 basket. You midge be able to get a foil cal custom made for the 2121

    Thinking about it logically I would not destroy the LE10a without knowledge of other real options.

    Also I have not used the after market 2121 recone kit but people are using that option where a reform is not an option.
    There are some Lansalloy surround versions that look really cool on ebay sometimes

    I have heard that sometimes JBL do run of recone kits like the 2121 so I would not entirely rule it out.
    But you can't buy a recone kit from JBL as it has to be installed by a JBL authorised service agent to meet JBL warranty.


    I would PM member Edgewound to get clarity on what other baskets can be used to make a 2121?

    So you in a bit of a jam unfortunately

    I suggest you contact Ken (Edgewound)

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    Thank you Ian
    I have a contact that are able to order parts from JBL, so If they are on stock at JBL I can usually get my hands on them.
    But 2121 is out of stock.
    I am looking towards making a 2122H from a 2123 basket (I have a couple of these, with damages cones but in otherwise good condition).
    I think I'll stick with the 2122H until I find a 2121.
    But I'll try to keep the crossover, as if I have a 2121 installed. You mention that they do have a different frequency response, then the question is just how big that difference is

    I am as of now trying to get the 10" and 15" secured, as soon as I have those I'll start on the enclosures.
    I wish there were detailed plans on these, but I haven't been able to find good plans, so it is reverse engineering based on pictures, drawings and the plans for other speakers on here.
    for example, I have the very extensive drawings from Odd for the 4344 cabinets, and measurements like panel-thickness, trimpanel and so forth should be identical between these.

    best regards
    Soren Iversen

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    The baffle plans are the problem
    Mhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33374-Baffle-Cabinet-Plans-of-the-4343

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...8&d=1351925330

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Concerning the 2122H you will need to use the new equivalent 3145 crossover.

    Should you wish to selll it after you decided to revert back to the 3143 it will be snapped up in a nanosecond second

    Link to new equivalent 3145 crossover

    The 3144 and the 3145 crossover are identical

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post401524

    For those watching if you are considering jumping from the 4343-4344 on the fly l will be able to answer your desire soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    The baffle plans are the problem
    Mhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33374-Baffle-Cabinet-Plans-of-the-4343

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...8&d=1351925330
    Thank you very much, for the link to the baffle plans!
    I assume the thickness of the plywood is kept the same across different 43XX speakers?
    I am going to peek inside a pair of 4333X soon, (Mining-style, with headlamp and everything ) and will be able to measure baffle thickness, trim overhang and side thickness from that pair.

    I'll go with the 3145 network with Giskard's list.
    That'll provide a good platform.

    I will however try to find some of these parts locally, as it might be very expensive to ship everything from, rather than finding the stuff in Denmark/Europe - but let's see. From the diagram it seems the 5.4mH is an iron core coil, but the parts list Solen component references an air coil (the L125.6)?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    As l recall Jbl used a 15 ply baffle.

    Once you get your Jasper router jig set up let us know and post some pics.

    My suggestion is do some practice cuts and don’t rush.

    I personally found the baffle the most tricky aspect of the construction.

    The enclosure walls were particle board back then

    I would use mdf or veneered mdf.

    Be sure to test your Jbl blue pain before application...Lol

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    As l recall Jbl used a 15 ply baffle.

    Once you get your Jasper router jig set up let us know and post some pics.

    My suggestion is do some practice cuts and donít rush.

    I personally found the baffle the most tricky aspect of the construction.

    The enclosure walls were particle board back then

    I would use mdf or veneered mdf.

    Be sure to test your Jbl blue pain before application...Lol
    I think I'll go with particle board for the sides at least.
    Always go slow - measure twice, cut once

    For the paint, the 4344 clone build on this site here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...-project/page6
    I'll make a lot of tests and sample them to the 4333 I have a chance of visiting.

  15. #15
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Lets not do the MDF thing , OP is in Denmark , Baltic Birch ply is commonplace and the dust won't kill you.
    From memory baffle is 25mm and the sides and back are 18mm with substantial. bracing.

    Just as a second thought , why not DSP the whole shebang. M4 !!

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