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Thread: Hi-freq. suggestions for 7' tall Altec 210's

  1. #1
    RacerXtreme
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    Hi-freq. suggestions for 7' tall Altec 210's

    What type of comp. driver/horn/throat combination will work best - primarily for near field applications - with some modified Altec 210 Voice of the Theatre cabinets? Why near field ? Because most of the time I will be listening to this system in my garage. The cabinets will not have the 60 watt Altec 515B's in them, but rather 400 watt JBL 2225's. I'm going to reduce the internal volume of the cabinet a bit so the JBL's will feel more "at home". Port volume I will have to play with. Some more insulation and a bit more internal bracing and they will be ready.

    Had four 100 degree 10 cell Altec 1005B horns (2 tar filled) and eight Altec 288C's for the high freq stuff, but grew tired of the sound and sold all of it. Wish I had it today to put up on Ebay.....

    I'm looking for better, cleaner, crisper hi-end that can keep up with eight JBL 2225's in some really big exponential horn-loaded cabinets.

    Any suggestions?



    Thanks,


    Guy

  2. #2
    Steve Gonzales
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    How about...

    A pair or two of 2445J's with 2380 biradial's and 3160 x-overs?

  3. #3
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Umm.....

    With those 210,s you could get a pair of JBL 2395,s and use a pair of 2441,s or whatever comp driver you like, and then a JBL 2405 slot for the UHF!

    This would kick ass, lens horns sound really good ontop of cabinets like these, and have wide dispersion, good for short to med throw!
    scottyj

  4. #4
    RacerXtreme
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    x-overs

    I'm using a Rane AC23 and will tri-amplify the system. The more I play with the Rane x-over, it seems like the ideal x-over points change depending on the source and the type of music. They might not change a lot sometimes, but just a little. Don't have the room set up right yet so it's not even worth messing with at the moment.


    This system should really crank w/ the eight 15" JBL's. I know the cabinets don't do well down low till they're braced properly, but for the most part I think it will sound.........

    interesting...........(LOUD) but ........interesting......

    One thing's for sure, it will have a lot more punch to it than with the 515B's that came in those cabinets. You would think there is a lot of difference between a 60 watt 15" woofer and one that's rated at 400 watts. I've been told it will never work (dropping the JBL's in the Altec cabinets) and others have said - do your homework, set it up right and it may sound pretty good.


    Next step is deciding on a high end set-up that will keep up with all the 15's. The Altec 288's were o.k. but couldn't handle a lot of power and were kind of
    flat way up high. Think they were all done at 15 or 16kHz or something like that. Tried titanium diaphragms in them and they sounded a little crisper.

    I really don't need drivers that handle a ton of power. Don't have to push them that hard most of the time. Maybe once in a while......


    Thanks for the help.




    Guy

  5. #5
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Ok

    The rane xovers I DO NOT LIKE at all. As you push the system, they tend to sound like they are becoming compressed! Truthfully, I dont like 24db L-R filters, and especially not for the horn cabinets your using, I prefer 18db butterworth! But thats just me! L-R is totally in phase at xover point, Butterworth sums maximally flat!

    IMHO, youll be better off using a great mid horn and driver and then crossing into a dedicated tweeter! takes the edge off the horn, and will give you the crisp UHF you are seeking! A JBL 2405 slot comes to mind as it will go all the way up to 21K! And you dont need much power at all, it just needs a nice sweet amp, cross em in at 8K or whatever makes you happiest!
    scottyj

  6. #6
    RacerXtreme
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    compressed ?

    Hey Scott, what is it about the 24 db slope in the Rane x-0ver that makes it sound compressed when you push it hard? Does it act like that when you don't? I think I understand what you're saying but not sure.




    Guy

  7. #7
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    I dont know why, but I know thats what I hear! The Rane in particular, starts to sound squashed as you push the system harder, at low levels its pretty ok, but, still not great, and, I prefer a bit more overlap between the drivers, than 24db allows! To me the Rane makes the midrange sound shouty.

    I use 18db butterworth, a urei 525 to be exact, and the sound, and image is quite seamless, and the sound gels together as one, and when Ive used 24db slopes, the woofers, mids and tweeter sound like seperate entities all playing at the same time, but the sound doesnt quite gel together for that seamless image!

    I will say that I use 2395/2441.s ontop of my 815,s, 817,s and 816,s with great success! I like it alot! Then I have a tweeter to go the rest of the way, my xover point is 7k with 2404 bi radials, and 8k if I use slots ( 2405 )
    scottyj

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I'll second Scott's opinion about the Rane. You don't need to crank them to hear it, they sound ... very transistory.

    I think the 2395 with 2440 or 2441 would be great as would the newer 2365A. With a 2365A you could use a phenolic 2" driver (2482, 2485) and crossover much lower, say 350-400Hz. This would probably not be a bad idea. With any of these horn/drivers I would go with a tweeter. The 2405s offer maximum bang for the buck. (Bang implying quality not SPL)

    Widget

  9. #9
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Something I just learned!

    SPL, and tweeters, in particular, the JBL 2402 and 2405!

    The 2405 is rated at 105db1w@1m, vs the 2402,s rating of 110db1w@1m! You know those slots sound about the same level as the bullets! They go higher, and have wider dispersion, and is a finer sound, but level wise they are quite close to the bullet! I was surprised being there is a 5db sensitivity difference in their ratings!

    I dunno, those slots sound darn efficient to me!
    scottyj

  10. #10
    RacerXtreme
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    which # ?

    What about 2450's ? Or 2451's ? Or 2470 ? What is the difference between the 2445's and 2446's ? Hate to even bring this up here, but do the large format EV compression drivers sound as good or better than some of the JBL's ?

    Are titanium diaphragms mandatory ?


    thanks,


    Guy

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Well with that list of JBL drivers you have listed 1", 1.5" and 2" drivers. I would be inclined to go with a 2" driver and use a lower crossover point as it will sound best with your bottoms.

    Scott and I both prefer aluminum to titanium and that is why the 2440/2441 recommendation.

    Is EV as good? I really have no experience with their current stuff. Their vintage stuff is absolutely not in JBL's league.

    Widget

  12. #12
    RacerXtreme
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    Altec A2 system

    Yeah, I know those are 1, 1.5 and 2" drivers. Just wondered if I really need to go with the big stuff, but I think I already know the answer.

    Why Aluminum over Titanium?

    I've got two of the A2's or four of the A4's. With wings.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pr...altec/vott.htm



    Guy

  13. #13
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Ok!

    Aluminum sounds sweeter in the high frequencies, Titanium can be a bit hard sounding! Its a preference of course, and if you should choose a JBL 2446 with Ti diaphragm I wont knock it! But the 2441 is, IMHO, the comp driver of choice considering the speakers you have!

    The 2450J is considered to be an excellent driver, but you should listen to them and see If its what you like! It is good, but its a different sounding driver than any that youve mentioned, and you would have to hear it and decide if you like it!

    EV! Not in the JBL league! Not my cup of tea!

    I would stick to 2in drivers, cross over at 750 or 800hz, run your horn up to 7 or 8K and cut into a dedicated tweeter from this point up!

    To date, AFAIC, JBL compression drivers have the sound! Their is ONLY one other that is at this level of sonic superiority, and that would be TAD! BUT, you wont go wrong with the right JBL driver and horn, and in many cases I actually prefer the JBL sound to all else. Its got a sound I love!
    scottyj

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