A larger room, a pair of 4313B and maybe the need to upgrade?

[Malefoda]

Hi gents,

my brother who have, like me, a pair of 4313B, is now enjoying a 45 square meters room, add to that that its ceiling is at an average of 3 meter high. Quite a large room to fill with a bookshelf like the 4313B. Receiver is a Yamaha R-S700.
I wonder if the bass reflex works at its best with that very deep room which is in fact much deeper as another room is straight after with no door and a large opening. You guessed it, bass are shy.
Can the 4313B play at their best in large rooms or should we start looking for say a L65 or another big gun?

Thanks!
Matthieu

[gasfan]

That's a rather large room for a bookshelf speaker. You could implement anything out there. The larger the better .

[Mr. Widget]

The 4313B is a wonderful speaker... sitting atop a meter bridge in a control room or at home in a smaller room. You need a full sized speaker for your full sized room.

As to recommendations? That is too wide a question. But as gasman suggests, look at big. The L65 wouldn't be on my short list in your situation.


Widget

[grumpy]

I'd go 15" on the low end, L300/4333x/4430 or larger, top end type perhaps dependent on what else is in the room (more directional if hard walls, then you have some chance of control... less directional ala 443x if there is some room control/absorption)

Certainly M2s or Everests would be fun.

[BMWCCA]

Budget??

My usual answer is L7 but not sure how many made it across the Atlantic. Cheap, fun, accurate, cheap, room-filling sound.

[Malefoda]

So everyone agrees about the small 4313B vs real big room (mine does wonders in my 20sqm room). And the need of real big speakers...
AFAIK L7 weren't sold here. Maybe TI6K or TI10K? Or even another brand...
No budget right now, he won't buy it next week but we can think about the future if we win the lottery We keep in mind 15" then. But let me guess, these need beefy amps...

[Ruediger]

... in the same house? Bass transmission can lead to troubles. This can limit the allowed playback volume.

Ruediger

[Malefoda]

Stand-alone house! Lucky him... BTW, he said he is using the room in half: half kitchen and half living room, meaning that his listening couch is at 3m from the 4313Bs wich are at about half a meter from the back wall. No need to stuupid-high levels in the kitchen part, just loud enough on the couch.
Maybe I'm wrong but I understand that bass response, even at 3m, is linked to the ability of the 10" driver/front port and enclosure to load the huge mass of air there, and a 15" will be at ease on that. True? I also understand that perceived volume at listening position is less because less reflections and more loss in air far away.
If all my statements are true then 15" is required. If at a close 3m from speakers it is less problematic then maybe a punchy 12", à la 4312A, can add what is missing. Or a sub...

Anyway we will try to measure and correct room response, start savings...

[Malefoda]

We've narrowed the choices to:
L200/4320/4325/4331, L300/4333, S3100 MkI/MkII and Array 1400.
Price wise the 4320 say the S8 are the cheapest, then cheap also the S3100. Other a double the price. As for me I then feel the S3100 is the bargain here.
BTW, are some in need for complex amping to sing and other easy load to drive with an classic integrated?

[Malefoda]

Hi gents,
we've also been advised that L150A will fill the bill, is this a sleeper?

[grumpy]

If you were particularly fond of the 4313, the L150A isn’t nearly as much of a change as some of your other candidates. This was my first real/new JBL set and I still have them. They have a nice unexaggerated low end that is also extended (perhaps not as much “punch” as some like). They do wake up with a larger amp (100-200w).

They also require maintaining four foam surrounds and the foam plug behind the tweeter dome.

I like them more than the L112 and maybe as much as the L96 (I may well be biased in my fondness for the L150A and that series)

[BMWCCA]

Hi gents,
we've also been advised that L150A will fill the bill, is this a sleeper?

Well, they certainly won't eclipse the 4333 or the 1400 Array. Should be considerably cheaper though.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Stand-alone house! Lucky him... BTW, he said he is using the room in half: half kitchen and half living room, meaning that his listening couch is at 3m from the 4313Bs wich are at about half a meter from the back wall. No need to stuupid-high levels in the kitchen part, just loud enough on the couch.
Maybe I'm wrong but I understand that bass response, even at 3m, is linked to the ability of the 10" driver/front port and enclosure to load the huge mass of air there, and a 15" will be at ease on that. True? I also understand that perceived volume at listening position is less because less reflections and more loss in air far away.
If all my statements are true then 15" is required. If at a close 3m from speakers it is less problematic then maybe a punchy 12", à la 4312A, can add what is missing. Or a sub...

Anyway we will try to measure and correct room response, start savings...

It’s more about your brothers expectations ?

Is he going to play loud rock music or background music?

The location of the listening position and the loudspeaker is going to dominate any subject differences overall if he is going to be listening at 3 metres .

The larger woofers will go louder but not always lower.

Bigger amps and bigger loudspeakers are going to sound more dynamic but not necessarily clearer.

A bass reflex design is not room dependent unless it’s rear ported but will nearly always sound more dynamic than a similar size sealed design.

The larger XPL series if you can find one is a possibility

They are more refined than most of the JBL consumer systems

Otherwise if a classic look and sound is preferred the L300 a contender

There are always some nice systems on the Japanese auction sites

[Ed Kreamer]

Greetings from the far flung marshes of Washington State,

Have you considered adding a "sub woofer" ( I dislike that term! )? Particularly if you like the 4313b? The 4313b is a great speaker and if augmented with two well designed and placed 15 inch very low bass units, it would probably fill

the bill. You could use your present amplifier or better yet, a separate mono amp. You'd retain the performance and sound of the 4313b and free it from vlf duty. I have done this with 4410,s and two Altec 411's for low bass, crossing over

at 40 Hz. My room however is not as large as the one being discussed,and you may require a higher crossover point.

I pose the query: Is there such a thing as too much bass??

Have fun

Ed

[badman]

I pose the query: Is there such a thing as too much bass??

Have fun

Ed

There can be too much bass from a balance perspective. From a displacement available perspective, if you use heavy high-damping suspensions, then too many drivers/too large a driver can lower the excursion demands to the point that these drivers actually sound WORSE with less power, though with JBL pro style drivers that's not really an issue. Outside of poorly setup (unbalanced bass) or on overscaled bass system designed for high driver displacement but operated at low driver displacement, more capability is definitely impossible (disregarding domestic space/ feng shui issues)

I use a single sub with 4x12" and 2 additional subs with 2x12". It's capable of more than I ever use, but the drivers are not the car-audio looking types that sound bad at low level, so it's pretty amazing stuff.