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Thread: New Project - Kickin' A-- and Taking Names!

  1. #1
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    New Project - Kickin' A-- and Taking Names!

    I am working on a new build that should kick butt over most systems, is maintenance free (i.e., no foams to ever replace or magnets to recharge), and uses no horns that can be peaky or honky, yet provides all the volume and dynamics you could want.

    At this point I've assembled the components, and only lack for making new cabinets for the mid-range woofers (~0.75 cu ft).

    The system starts with 2241H as the basis. These are mounted in custom made cabinets (to JBL specs) just under 7 cu ft and tuned to ~32-33 Hz. The cabinets are 24" x 21" x 30" deep. These were used in a church and are in absolutely perfect condition without a scratch on them. The cabinets look absolutely JBL, complete with JBL logos and handles that say 2241H, and even "tilt-back" wheels for easy moving. These will go out to ~250 Hz. They can be used horizontally or vertically (21" wide x 24" tall) to reduce edge diffraction with just 1-1/2" to either side of the woofers.

    The mids are 2251Js and will be in their own smaller cabints that perch on the 2241s (ala Wilson and a bunch of other high end models). Use of the small cabinet will allow it to be positioned/aimed independant of the woofer and will not take volume from the woofers cabinet. Testing shows these are extremely smooth from ~200-2,500Hz.

    From there the system will cross over to a set of modern Heil AMTs.

    The system should be very dynamic.






  2. #2
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Cool. I bought a pair of those mids as well, with not entirely dissimilar thoughts
    Would be fun to see/hear when ready!

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    Of course all will be invited.

    Whole thing (both sides) should be <$1,500 complete when done. Should be lots of bang for the buck!

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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    From there the system will cross over to a set of modern Heil AMTs.
    I love the Heil AMT's . Most of the ESS systems are 2 ways, the amt handles both
    mids & highs.
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

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    I cut out the face plates for the 2251Js. I cut the squares on a table saw, "radiused" three sides (L,T,R) on the table router, and roughed out the speaker holes on a CNC router at the Urban Workshop. The speaker holes were done small and I had to "sneak up" on the speakers' OD with a file. The 2251Js have VERY LITTLE lip on the sides, top, and bottom so the hole has to be fairly accurate. These, at approximately 9-3/4", are too small to fit in a typical 10" speaker's hole.

    The 2251J actually serves as a "horn driver" and the factory application mounted them to the rear of a large midrange horn.

    The "2241H Series" woofer cabinets are a bit of an enigma. The owner said that they were custom made to JBL specifications. They appear as factory JBL, complete with the "series designation." The thing is, I can find no reference to a "2241H Series" so this would infer that they even went to the trouble to come up with a "factory appearing" badge and even handles.






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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Cool sub.

    JBL has, or had a custom shop on the Pro side. I have some product from them, slim line array stuff with non production custom horns.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Senior Member gdmoore28's Avatar
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    "The "2241H Series" woofer cabinets are a bit of an enigma. The owner said that they were custom made to JBL specifications. They appear as factory JBL, complete with the "series designation." The thing is, I can find no reference to a "2241H Series" so this would infer that they even went to the trouble to come up with a "factory appearing" badge and even handles. "

    Hmm. Any chance JBL simply provided those with the woofers? An update to older cabs? Just curious. Can you ask the original owner?

    GeeDeeEmm

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    Was a C/L find and I don't have the phone # anymore. Also, he was very hard to communicate with (Vietnamese I believe).

    When I asked about the woofers, to be sure they were 2241s, he did say that he saw them being installed and that is what the foilcals noted they were. So I asked him to google pics of 2241s and the cones and dust caps are correct. (I expected a 4" dust cap like a 2245 but that's not the case with these.)

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    I set up an A/B between the 2241 cabinets and the AlNiCo 2235s in the enlarged L200 cabinets. Obviously, the 2241s are more efficient. But they also bring out lower midrange frequencies, including lower vocals, that the 2235s don't get. I am convinced that the foam edge has to do with this and always missed those frequencies when I replaced the 130As with the 2235s.

    Also, the L200s are tuned a bit lower and the 2241s have a nice bit of bass "punch" that comes through.

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    Last weekend I cut the faces for the 2251Js and routed the corners round to reduce edge diffraction. These are actually fiberboard. The raised sides/top from the router will be taken down in final sanding.




    Today I cut the top, bottom, and sides out of red oak and glued one together. I only have two big clamps so have to do one at a time. I wanted to do a 45 degree mitered edge, but a straight edge is easier so that's what I settled on. Also, the boards were 4 feet long, so I probably would have come up a hair short in the long run by the time I got the angles in there. I haven't had wood shop in over 50 years (7th grade), and we never got this far


    I also did up acrylic stands in CAD for the Heils, but wanted to check the clearances before wasting a nice piece of acrylic on the laser cutter. A piece of scrap 1/4" ply shows that my calculations were right on and I can cut the acrylic with confidence. I did cut the acrylic feet.

    Actually, the clear acrylic is very apropos because Heil's Trademark is "Sound as Clear as Light."



  11. #11
    Senior Member gdmoore28's Avatar
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    Hurry up, Todd! We want to see more!

    GeeDeeEmm

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    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    I completed the four sides of both cabinets now and need to do lots of sanding to get everything to mate up, then make the backs.

    I won't be able to get back to the workshop until later this week, but that will give the glue a chance to dry. Don't you just hate it when partially dry glue gums up your sand paper?

    I peered into the 2241H cabinets with a flashlight and I can see that they put NO INSULATION on the walls. I have the system set up so I can A/B the 2241H cabinet against the modified L200 cabinet, with the "AlNiCo 2235", (both using the 2420/long horn and 2405) and the 2241 cabinet sounds a bit hollow/boxy. I think the insulation should take care of this.

    BION, the 2241H brings out the vocals so much better than the 2235. I attribute this (and always have) to the foam edge and heavy cone in the 2235. The 2235s give a "heavy chestiness" compared to the 2241s that just seems unnatural and like it shouldn't be there (and is not with the 2241s) and omits some of the lower midrange with singers like Joni Mitchell just on acoustic guitar or Wurlitzer electric piano.

    Of course, I've complained of this since swapping out the 130As to the 2235s over 10 years ago. If I ever had the AlNiCo 2235s redone, I would have them leave out the mass ring (ala, 2234), and run a sub, which I do anyway.

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    I ordered 12 rolls of denim insulation and a can of spray adhesive to to the woofer cabinets. Made from recycled jeans, this is not itchy like fiberglass and at 1.8" thick, should line the cabinets nicely without blocking any ports.


  15. #15
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    .... I can see that they put NO INSULATION!.
    They play louder with no insulation. They sound better with.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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