I bought a pair of D.A.S. lenses and horns which are the same size as a 2395. I am thinking of building a 4350 box and replacing the mid with the D-401 and using a 2402 for the high. Would this work? I would have to use woofers that go up to 800 Hz. What woofer would work, and would the port size have to be changed?
Last edited by robertg; 08-02-2017 at 10:03 AM. Reason: changed 4530 to 4350
Nice did you just get those off eBay? I have the same horns. D.A.S had those and another model that was a very similar to the smaller Jbl lense. Spec sheets are on the web if you search. The horn as far as I know is identical to the shape of the jbl horn. There are some pics somewhere on the web with dims comparing the horns with dims. Gary Stewart tipped me off on the D.A.S horns awhile back. If you don't end up building enclosures at the very least you want to cover up the backs. I did mine by replacing some of the spacers with small wood blocks which gave me something to attach to. I used some 1/8 thick wood that I lined with felt. I'm not home now but I'll snap a pic when I can.
Al
I got them on ebay a couple of weeks ago for $300.00. They have a bit of road rash on one corner, I might have to round all of the corners to match, or find a good welder. I found the spec sheet and it says they are good from 800 hz to 4000 hz. Hopefully I can find plans for a cabinet that has enough room for them and two 15 woofers. I really don't want to try to design my own cabinet.
Hi Robert,
2395 and 4530 are short-throw devices (up to 75 feet for 4530) whereas 2402 (40° conical dispersion) is a long-throw tweeter... You'd be better off using the 2405 type tweeter for better balance, dispersion and similar "reach". The original compression driver for 2395 horn/lens assembly was the JBL 2440. The original recommended drivers for the 4530 boxes were JBL 2205H (replaced by 2225H) and E-140 15" which may be difficult to find in original state or with original recones... So, then look-up Thiele/Small parameters on JBL's Web site for the best drivers (2205H/E-140) and try to find a new driver with as close as possible T/S to those to load your 4530 boxes, as well as with response > 800hz for x-over purpose. The 2225H was not recommended by JBL for 4530 use (see T/S) but some people did use it with success they said, and it was the only "suitable" (closest) one left at that time in the JBL catalog.
There is no port in a 4530 but rather a rear-loaded folded horn (scoop). No need to change the dimensions of that. If you did it may not work correctly (according to specs).
Richard
I changed the original post to 4350, I'm dislexic at times.Originally Posted by RMC
Forgot to mention I use mine with a bms
coax so I don't use a uhf driver. I agree with RMC a 2405 or a 2404 would be a better match.
So what drivers would work if I built this cabinet? The 4350 came with dual 2331 drivers, but I believe they were use only to 200 Hz. They probably are difficult to find also. I have a couple of E145, but the next two might take a while to find.
The cabinet should be approximately 12 cubic feet with six 3" ports.
Hi Robert,
Since the 4350 came with 2231H you may want to try to find that driver's successors which are 2234H and 2235H, the latter being easier to find. But there's a wrench in the wheel if you want to build a pair of boxes: you have a pair of E-145 (musical instrument driver) and the 15" 2235H is more of a studio monitor/Hi-Fi driver with different specs than E-145. That would mean different low-frequency sound from the two boxes..., even supposing both drivers would be a good match for the box you plan to build (which may not be the case) !
Maybe you'd be better off looking for two more E-145 to minimize costs ? (vs 4 x 2235H), since logically you need four of the same thing for a pair of 4350 type boxes. Then you have to run driver data in speaker design software to see what proper box you can make with each pair. Box volume and port number/dimensions may or may not be as you had planned, specially if they are not the original 2231H...
An even better/cheaper solution would be to build boxes for a single E-145 along with your horn/lens and tweeter devices. Simpler/cheaper all the way.
Richard
Hi Ivica,
Some good points you raised here.
For direct sound to the listener, the beaming problem isn't a big thing if you are always listening on-axis and not too close. If you move around however or are located off-axis, then it would be noticeable. As for reflected sound in a room, well there's a good chance the imbalances would be heard with very different low/mid/high coverage patterns from each driver used. My point here is simply why build a box with more "flaws", or repeating some errors of others, when you can easily build one with less issues?
RE "drivers dispersion 'curves' has to be included, as for 15" drivers over 800Hz they start to "beam" It seems dispersion curves for 15" drivers above 800 hz don't present much interest since MOST of these are crossed over at that frequency anyway(except for the few ones that do up to 1,200 hz). I think double 15" close together start to beam way before 800 hz.
RE "tilting bass baffles horizontally off-axis about 15 to 20 degs (as DD66000/67000)" This example is quite good, I had forgotten about these boxes that I can't afford anyway... Very clever idea from the Design Engineer, though much more difficult to build for us, and knowing the exact angles to use on the baffle if different driver used. Again, I'm pretty sure this is for minimizing horizontal double woofer beaming, and I agree with you this should improve upper bass section dispersion in the horizontal plane.
RE "tilting the speaker towards the listeners by 15 ~ 30 degs would help too" Agreed. Above I wrote about listening on-axis which basically leads to the same thing. To "toe-in" the boxes as they say is done so the listener can be more on-axis and also to hear more depth. Personnaly, I don't like having to be always on-axis for proper sound. If you can only get well-balanced sound in a very narrow window it gets annoying.
TWO ADDITIONS TO MY PREVIOUS POST:
1) The old saying, too often seen around here, "If some is good, then more will be better", doesn't always apply, specially in Audio. Example, this time related to directional properties of combined MF/HF radiators: "Simpler arrays are usually better behaved than larger ones, and there should always be logical reasons for combining two or more HF elements in an array." (J. Eargle, Handbook of Sound System Design, P. 88).
2) In my last post # 16 where I mentioned the E-145 had an Xmax of 7mm (twice that of E-140!) I forgot to mention this 7mm is also 2mm more than the 2225H considered at 5mm. Not bad for such an older device.
BTW Ivica there's two other issues about mutual coupling that I have not mentioned yet since the opportunity has not presented itself: diminishing returns with too many boxes stacked and box alignment shifts when mutually coupling loaded vented boxes (not drivers by themselves). Both from J. Eargle's books mentioned here. Other illustrations that "If some is good, then more will be better", doesn't always apply!
Richard
Thanks for the detailed reply, It would take me a day to write something like that.
So if I use one E145 and I wanted to make the box at least 36.5" wide, I would end up with a 9-10 cubic foot box. Is using something that large going to cause issues? I do have a couple pairs of 2404 tweeters also.
Two woofers is not a 4530 but rather a 4520 cabinet...
Richard
Hi Robert,
I've checked some box volumes and made a quick simulation in speaker design software for you re E-145. I'll be back tonight with that, no time right now..
Richard
If you want a good "Modern" alternative you can use 4x2226h, much lighter than 2225h, suitable also for some horn loaded cabinet, easier to find, modern technology and nice sound.
I used 4 in place of the 2235h in the meantime I was waiting to get them, and they are able to produce until 38-40hz flat on a 4350 cabinet (with shorter port) with a big punch and clean sound.
Ofcourse if you have enough money the market is full of alternative, for example TAD1601
What are you going to be using this system for?
If you are using it as "large" domestic hifi here are my thoughts.
Acquire 4 2234H woofer build by Edgewound.
The dual 2234H form the bass and mid up to 800 Hz.
Use the 4435 mode of driving the 2234H.
One woofer is a helper below 100 Hz. The system is flat to 30 hertz and full power to 26
System sensitivity is around 96 Db 1 watt 1 metre.
The single woofer above 100 Hz will image better than two woofers.
The concept is proven by JBL so you don't need to engineer anything.
Just biamp @800 Hz
The 2234 is a 2335 without the mass ring. It's a significant improvement over the stock 2235 in the midrange due to the lower MMS and provides extended bass in the 4435 box.
If your budget permits buy two 2 inch Jbl compression drivers and load with Truexent Berilyum diaphragms.
The 2405 may be redundant.
I think it would win in several areas with extended bass, mid range clarity, high resolution highs and dynamics.
I was reading about the 4435 yesterday. The two chambers are divided horizontally, so my mid range would have to go above the cabinet because the divider would hit it. The 36" lens would have to be centered in the cabinet. Possible, but wasted cabinet space. Also the 2234 and 2235 are difficult to find.
Would it make sense if I built a 15 cubic foot enclosure with two chambers. I could use an 18" 224x series driver up to 80-100 hz and use my E-145 above that? This enclosure is going to be at least 38" wide, so making it a foot taller isn't a big deal.
Im running a DBX Driverack PA2 with a McIntosh MC2500 for the bottom end and two small amps for the minds and highs. I'm not sure if I want to throw another amp in there. I'm assuming I can throw a passive crossover in there and use the MC2500 for both the 15" and 18"?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote