Testing some used 2225 drivers

[budney]

I've found some 2225 drivers locally but I've never bought some vintage drivers before so was hoping that someone could detail some tests I can do to ensure they're in proper condition. I had planned on running pink noise through them and check they all sound the same but other than that I'm not sure what to do.

I've attached some photos, do they look like the real deal? Seem to be in alright condition visually but i wouldn't be able to tell if they're the original cones or aftermarket ones, seller says they're original cones and haven't been used much. Thanks!

[speakerdave]

I'm not an expert, but I think those are the correct cones, although they look well-traveled, and because they are sound reenfircement drivers, that means they are probaby pretty wrung out.

My question is, What do you want them to do? I would not recommend them for hi fi use. The beauty part, though, is the frame and magnet are identical to the 2235/2234. If they are priced correctly for cores to be reconed as real hi fi woofers, then they would be worthwhile. That would be my suggestion.

[budney]

Im building some 4520 replicas, so my main use would be sound reinforcement for some parties. With them being 20-30 years old I'm not really holding out on finding any in mint condition and I'm in the UK so buying on ebay and shipping is not something I want to do. They don't pop up often here so I've not got much choice.

I was just wondering if there was anything I can specifically look out for to show that they're a bit weathered, so maybe I can haggle the price down a bit, other than just looking at them and seeing that they've been used.

[speakerdave]

I would want to play some rock or jazz (drums and bass) through them and briefly turn the LF up some so the cones move a lot to see if there are any tocks, rattles, flutters or scrapes. Barring, that, I would pay their value as cores in your locale. Even if they pass that test I would pay very little over core value. Whoever owns them has gotten their use out of them or has bought them real cheap, is my guess. There is definitely an arc of life in cones, spiders and surrounds. Basically, I wouldn't touch them not planning on a recone. When in good condition this is a great driver, not for VLF, but for upper bass impact, but used up is used up.

[budney]

Okay, thanks, good to know. Will give them a thorough test. The seller is asking for £100 each or £350 for 4 so maybe I could get them a bit lower if they seem well used. Hard to tell from the photo how much use they've really had. I had toyed about the idea of reconing them, I think I can find the genuine jbl recone kit in some places, not cheap though

[Lee in Montreal]

Look for coil rubbing. Simply push the cone from all around the dome by a few millimeters and see if they rub.

[budney]

Look for coil rubbing. Simply push the cone from all around the dome by a few millimeters and see if they rub.

Hey lee, okay thanks, will check that out. I've managed to find 2 pairs of 2395s locally, can't believe my luck!

Someone has said to use 2220s for the 4520, but I can't figure out the difference between the 2220 and 2225 apart from sensitivity, do you have any experience comparing the two?

[Lee in Montreal]

The 2220 has a low Qts which should make it more suitable for a horn, but it is an upper midbass driver. You'll get more bass from the 2225.

[budney]

The 2220 has a low Qts which should make it more suitable for a horn, but it is an upper midbass driver. You'll get more bass from the 2225.

okay, 2225 it is now I'm hoping the ones I found are in okay shape

[Lee in Montreal]

okay, 2225 it is now I'm hoping the ones I found are in okay shape

And a word of wisdom. If you simply connect your woofers to the amp and think that the preamp's tone control is enough to get good sound, you may be in for a surprise. I suggest getting a digital crossover to shape the sound to your taste. Most likely more bass under 60Hz and less midrange. As for that dip around 120-150Hz, there's absolutely nothing you can do. If you boost that range, you will boost equally on the front and rear waves, getting a null. Which is why I was suggesting using the 4520s up to a tad below of that null range and get another cab from 100 to 800hz where you'll be crossing over to the slants.

[budney]

I had planned on using a digital crossover, at least at the beginning whilst im experimenting. Got a choice of a dbx or a behringer that I can borrow for the timebeing, obviously the dbx being the first choice. The null point is worrying me but I'm not going to stress about it too much until I've actually built a cab and can hear for myself. Seriously considering building a Waldorf too, id really like to compare the two and see which I like more before committing to building 4 stacks. I'd love to have a set up similar to the garage but taking it step by step. I've found a stash of bgw amps in Europe so a eurotrip might be on the cards soon!

[Horn Fanatic]

I had planned on using a digital crossover, at least at the beginning whilst im experimenting. Got a choice of a dbx or a behringer that I can borrow for the timebeing, obviously the dbx being the first choice. The null point is worrying me but I'm not going to stress about it too much until I've actually built a cab and can hear for myself. Seriously considering building a Waldorf too, id really like to compare the two and see which I like more before committing to building 4 stacks. I'd love to have a set up similar to the garage but taking it step by step. I've found a stash of bgw amps in Europe so a eurotrip might be on the cards soon!

Hello again, budney -

Instead of all the suggested guessing, perhaps you could sweep your 2225 speakers with a sine wave generator at low amplitude to check for rubbing, then boost the amplitude to check for nulls and peaks, then compare your findings to the published nomograph on the back of the data sheet. The 2220 actually has a lower free air resonance than the 2225 by 3 cycles. Although it's not suggested for rigorous low frequency use in professional sound systems, it will perform admirably in a HiFi situation.

The 2220 is the professional version of the 130A, which was used in the C34 and C40 folded horns. Between the 2220 and 130A, the Thiele-Small parameters are a dead match. The improvement was employing the more rugged surround on the 2220.

You won't get much bass out of the Jensen Imperial, AKA RLA Waldorf. Some kind soul on the forum some years ago posted a frequency response graph where it showed the box tanking at 50Hz. The C34 will surpass that easily. However, the chamber volume of the C34 is much too small for what a 2225 requires.

Good luck,

H.F.

[budney]

Hello again, budney -

Instead of all the suggested guessing, perhaps you could sweep your 2225 speakers with a sine wave generator at low amplitude to check for rubbing, then boost the amplitude to check for nulls and peaks, then compare your findings to the published nomograph on the back of the data sheet. The 2220 actually has a lower free air resonance than the 2225 by 3 cycles. Although it's not suggested for rigorous low frequency use in professional sound systems, it will perform admirably in a HiFi situation.

The 2220 is the professional version of the 130A, which was used in the C34 and C40 folded horns. Between the 2220 and 130A, the Thiele-Small parameters are a dead match. The improvement was employing the more rugged surround on the 2220.

You won't get much bass out of the Jensen Imperial, AKA RLA Waldorf. Some kind soul on the forum some years ago posted a frequency response graph where it showed the box tanking at 50Hz. The C34 will surpass that easily. However, the chamber volume of the C34 is much too small for what a 2225 requires.

Good luck,

H.F.

Hey H.F

Cheers for the testing info, I'm hoping that theres no issues with the drivers. But as speakerdave mentioned, with them being so old a recone would be the sensible idea even if they're in okay condition, but a genuine recone kit costs so much! As for the 2220, I gather that they're an older driver, from the same era as the 2205? I think I'm in trouble of going down a vintage rabbit hole, looking at all these old drivers. Then theres the E140, the K140, the 2205, all hard to find! I think I'll stick with the 2225s for now, since theres some local to me that aren't too expensive. Maybe one day I can look into getting some older nicer drivers, if I can find them. Lee mentioned on another thread the altec 515, and I have heard them before and I did really like the sound, but as for finding some for a good price, I can forget them!

As for the waldorf, I'm aware of their shortcomings, but they are famous for being installed in some old clubs in new york, and are attached to a specific sound and genre of music, the same genre that I like and wish to play. Its still a maybe to build one, and I would compare it to the 4520 to see which one I liked more. I am not likely to find the genuine plans though, so again this is still all up in the air. I have not seen this post on the forum showing the frequency response, do you think you could send me a link?

Thanks again

[budney]

I got the seller to send me some pics of the writing on the cone, I want to make sure they are proper jbl cones and not aftermarket. Do they look legit?

[RMC]

The black glue line around the dust cap is often a good indicator if the thing is original since a factory made one is usually smooth and almost perfect all around. On your pictures some raise a question in my mind... Compare first and second pictures at bottom of your first post, and also compare those where you have the three units side by side (left looks better than the other two). Seems like some hesitation from the hand holding the glue tube. My factory original JBL 15" sure don't have that hesitation in their glue lines. Original probably machine made. To me some may have been reconed.

Richard