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Thread: Flippers and Worse

  1. #1
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Flippers and Worse

    I brought this string over from another thread... I did so partly out of a basic curiosity, but also to try to better understand how we might be able to better welcome potential nubes and not have some of our Market Place threads spiral out of control into rude name calling rants.

    My purpose is not to call out anyone positively or negatively for past events, I'm hoping we can find a way to better greet potential new members.


    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    The OP appears to be but another hit-and-run "what's it worth" poster. Perhaps a flipper. If he comes back, maybe he'll explain.
    Why do so many of "us" care about these inquiries? There do seem to be a number of the regulars here who take offense from folks who have little or no interest in Lansing Heritage and even possibly no interest in audio, but have come across a vintage speaker and want to know what it is or what it's worth to someone else. My question is, if they are polite why do "we" care what the reason is for their inquiry?

    Personally I prefer talking with like minded folks who are passionate about audio and better yet vintage Lansing gear, but it seems the right thing to do is to answer the "hit and run" crowd's questions or ignore them if you don't like their tone. Too often I see members chastise first time posters who want to know what dad left them or they found at a recent yard sale.


    Widget

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Why do so many of "us" care about these inquiries? There do seem to be a number of the regulars here who take offense from folks who have little or no interest in Lansing Heritage and even possibly no interest in audio, but have come across a vintage speaker and want to know what it is or what it's worth to someone else. My question is, if they are polite why do "we" care what the reason is for their inquiry?

    Personally I prefer talking with like minded folks who are passionate about audio and better yet vintage Lansing gear, but it seems the right thing to do is to answer the "hit and run" crowd's questions or ignore them if you don't like their tone. Too often I see members chastise first time posters who want to know what dad left them or they found at a recent yard sale.


    Widget
    While you are correct, there are also these people with absolutely no interest in Lansing products, or even in audio stuff, and only want to use the forum's resources for their own personal profit.

    What about asking for a mandatory presentation as first post?

  3. #3
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    While you are correct, there are also these people with absolutely no interest in Lansing products, or even in audio stuff, and only want to use the forum's resources for their own personal profit.
    Most people throughout the world have zero interest in Lansing Heritage or Audio... I would submit if it is important to you (not you individually, but to any Forum member) that a person shares your love for this stuff and isn't here solely for profit, you ask the poster before answering any questions something along the lines of, "I'll be happy to help, but only if you are asking for your own use, or only if you are not going to sell this item, or... "



    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    What about asking for a mandatory presentation as first post?
    I'm not sure what this is. Do you mean post a photo?


    Widget

  4. #4
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Too often I see members chastise first time posters who want to know what dad left them or they found at a recent yard sale.
    As the first responder in this thread, I'd like to say I answered his question, did some research he could have easily done himself, and even suggested that if he was a seller, he was welcome to list them here, but just let us know that that is the intent. If I was the least bit snarky, it was more toward the lack of initiative in doing his own research—not about the fact that he asked a value question on his first post.

    And I even put in a winking smiley emoticon! That should count for something in the nuance-free Internet forum zone.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  5. #5
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    As the first responder in this thread, I'd like to say I answered his question, did some research he could have easily done himself, and even suggested that if he was a seller, he was welcome to list them here, but just let us know that that is the intent. If I was the least bit snarky, it was more toward the lack of initiative in doing his own research—not about the fact that he asked a value question on his first post.

    And I even put in a winking smiley emoticon! That should count for something in the nuance-free Internet forum zone.
    I wasn't pointing fingers or suggesting that anyone was being rude on this thread, I simply am trying to understand why a handful of Forum members take such offense to strangers popping in wanting to know about gear.

    Furthermore if they are here to help themselves become more informed sellers, what's the harm in that?


    Widget

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    If you were a normal person ( a person with no expertise or prior knowledge in the subject matter) as in a court of law the jury might think the respondent was judgemental.

    The question remains was the advice offered "good" advice?

    Any one is entitled to their opinion.


    My thoughts are some read far to much into a post and it suggests they have a week or so off the forums and get some fresh air.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RedCoat23's Avatar
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    Personally speaking, I never respond to them at all. But my objections are this.

    1. Lazy, they could (with a bit of effort) find this information by searching the internet in general or searching the site in particular.
    2. They add zero, nada, zip, nothing to the conversation on here and are an annoyance to our regular business
    3. They are happy to use the collective knowledge here and most cases, once the information is gleaned, disappear with nary a comment or thanks.
    4. Exhibit the classic symptoms of entitlement and can be downright rude when called upon their self-serving behavior.

    All of the above come wrapped in a huge IMHO; and perhaps I'm just seeing their behavior through my own selective filters. Either way, that's how I react when I see those posts.

    Best Regards

    RedCoat.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Perhaps he might be an innocent first time poster.

    Most people become interested after they buy something.

    So that gives the lurking respondent the right to be so circumspect as to be condescending and judgemental?

  9. #9
    Senior Member RedCoat23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Perhaps he might be an innocent first time poster.

    Most people become interested after they buy something.

    So that gives the lurking respondent the right to be so circumspect as to be condescending and judgemental?
    There are always going to be some who fit into the category you're alluding to. Just as there are going to be some who fit into the other category.
    By waiting I can determine which bucket they fit into. If it really is just fishing for easy information then I'm losing nothing by ignoring them. If, however, they stay around and seem engaged in the subject then I'd be happy to be welcoming.
    Remember, these are personal preferences. Widget wanted to know why so I responded. I don't need to justify my reasons to others. They are my reasons. Just as those who differ are entitled to their reasons and I don't judge them for it even if I don't agree.

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat23 View Post
    Personally speaking, I never respond to them at all.
    And I think that is the correct response. Often the original poster is looking for a quick answer and is either too ignorant or too lazy to search for answers or do their own thinking... if you (we) don't feel compelled to answer their query then so be it.

    As for your 4 points, I've certainly seen the first 3 often enough. I'm not sure about the 4th, but I appreciate your approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Perhaps he might be an innocent first time poster.

    Most people become interested after they buy something.

    So that gives the lurking respondent the right to be so circumspect as to be condescending and judgemental?
    And occasionally we do get these and many long time Forum members were in this category at one time. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. If on the other hand they turn out to be an ass, then it will become obvious to everyone and the best practice is to let them get bored talking to themselves and go away.


    Widget

  11. #11
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    "2. They add zero, nada, zip, nothing to the conversation on here and are an annoyance to our regular business."

    I guess this is where I get lost. What exacty is our regular business?

    "...people with absolutely no interest in Lansing products, or even in audio stuff, and only want to use the forum's resources for their own personal profit."

    Who, what or where does this do any harm? Is there a finite amount of something here? It's not like we "loose" information.

    We have a reputation of being pretty snotty here at Lansing Heritage. Help me understand how that is of any benefit to this forum.

    Sorry Mr Widget, apparently all I have are questions.

    Barry.


    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  12. #12
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Perhaps he might be an innocent first time poster.

    Most people become interested after they buy something.

    So that gives the lurking respondent the right to be so circumspect as to be condescending and judgemental?
    I literally lurked in the Library for about 7 years before I ever posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post

    We have a reputation of being pretty snotty here at Lansing Heritage. Help me understand how that is of any benefit to this forum.
    I have been to another audio site get together's and our "passion" here did come up. I just replied that we have the same standard distribution of people just like any other community and many members are very helpful.

    Personally I'd like to start a continuing thread that builds community here to find out more than srm51555 has a pair of M2+'s or Barry has 125+ woofers laying around. Speaker safari and some others are great examples of this. There are many great stories to be told here. Some of the OT reply's here are some of the greatest. Some are not so great also.

    Anyway to answer the question Mr Widget asked, I usually take it on a case by case basis.

    Thanks,
    Scott

  13. #13
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Found the unofficial FAQ I had worked on years ago...


    For me, it's something like this:

    We're here to have a good time, learn a few things, share with others ...
    mostly as relates to James B. Lansing's Heritage in regard to consumer (hi-fi) and pro audio history,
    knowledge, and enjoyment. There is a clear bias toward older equipment and information,
    but also interest and motivation in pursuing cutting-edge products and DIY
    undertakings. Poke around. Ask questions. Wear a thick skin (it's the Internet). Enjoy.

  14. #14
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    With newbie questions, if I'm interested and have time, I'll usually respond and often redirect. If not... I move on.

  15. #15
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Flippers and Worse

    .
    Flippers and Worse

    OKAY , you snared us in with the title , what IS worse ?

    What could possibly be WORSE ? ISIS terrorists ? DJT supporters ?
    you seem to have left us hanging (pun intended ) there ... see, if
    I include a smiley , then ...well you know....

    And flippers ? Without them much of this vintage gear would be in landfills.
    I know a few of them and recognize that they have usually great product
    knowledge , market smarts and often rescue and rehab gear to obtain selling
    condition. VAR is a better term and VALUE ADDED Reseller is often a good
    description.

    I'm going to restrain, but WORSE for me is the audio snake oil sellers - new or used.
    Magic cables , Shun Mook cr@p , cryo conditioning . At least the flippers are selling
    a REAL product that they can demo.

    Flippers ? Every used book store , used CD or record store , used plumbing store, used car dealership ...etc..etc is a flipper , only difference is that they have a business license.
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

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