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Thread: Skating rink bass build

  1. #31
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    Oh ok. I'll research the super scooper more and when I have enough information I'll present the proposal to the rink owner and see what he wants to do.


    That said I did adjust the crossover this past weekend and the current subs seemed to blend in better, but still aren't good enough as on some songs that have a lower bass note that varies down in frequency I can hear the bass start to drop off and start to feel the vibration of the subs themselves.

  2. #32
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    Super Scooper Data and Performance

    The plotted Scooper's frequency response does not look like what you would expect. The typical peaks and dips at higher frequencies, when output from cone and horn mouth cancel each other, are missing.

    The solid angle into which the speaker(s?) radiated is unspecified. The plot shows the output 3 dB down at 30 Hz, but as stated elsewhere, that requires a group of 4 cabinets.

    Ruediger

  3. #33
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    Here's the current subs specs.

    http://yorkville.com/subwoofers/elite/product/ls1208/

    3 db down at 35Hz with a single cabinet.

    Using two side by side is better which is how they are currently set up.

    Now using two scoopers side by side will there be enough of an improvement over the Yorkvilles?

    If not then I need something better than the scoopers as whatever is done needs to be noticeably better than the current subs.

  4. #34
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    Super Scooper Data and Performance #2

    I do not think that the frequency response plot belongs to the Super Scooper. It looks like a simulation. The specs are contradictory and/or incomplete.

    I do not say that the Super Scooper is a bad design. It simply is not a quantum leap when compared to the 4530, 4520.

    Ruediger

  5. #35
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    Also the final specs would be affected by the driver that is used.

  6. #36
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    With all respect to all previous posts as a number of his designs have been mentioned you could do well to join http://forum.speakerplans.com forum-it's Roger Mogale's site and this kind of stuff is bread and butter to the guys over there.

  7. #37
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    I looked at his designs for horns and subs and the only ones that go low enough are the 18" and 21" scoopers.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tube Radio View Post
    I looked at his designs for horns and subs and the only ones that go low enough are the 18" and 21" scoopers.
    Indeed but the membership are mostly very experienced PA guys-ie they don't just use Roger's designs-lots of knowledge and advice available if you care to tap into it..

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooky1257 View Post
    Indeed but the membership are mostly very experienced PA guys-ie they don't just use Roger's designs-lots of knowledge and advice available if you care to tap into it..
    There are indeed other horn loaded bass bin designs that will out perform the Super Scooper. Like the Terra horn.

    http://forum.speakerplans.com/super-...opic20503.html



    http://www.metaacoustics.com/terra.html


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooky1257 View Post
    Indeed but the membership are mostly very experienced PA guys-ie they don't just use Roger's designs-lots of knowledge and advice available if you care to tap into it..
    Oh ok will have to check there.


    Lee, I'll have to check that horn out.

    Can't view that website at work, but I can take a look at lunch when I go to my car to use my phone.

  11. #41
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    An update.

    Found out from their tech guy that they are going to upgrade all the sound when they finish a new edition which will be later this year.

    The skating rink area is 10,000 sq ft.

    So whatever subs that are used will need to go down to at least 30Hz fairly flat and fill that space with bass.

    I'm thinking that money isn't too much of a thing they are worried about, but I still want to keep the cost reasonable and I'd like to be able to present the benefits of whatever subs are chosen basically selling the idea of the better subs to the rink.

    Personally I think the powered QSC speakers they use on the wall are ok as they seem to reproduce the midbass-highs rather well and fill the space with sound without any issues. No echo or any other issues commonly seen with speakers set up like most rinks have them which I think is because none of the wall speakers are actually directly facing each other given they are on swivel mounts and are positioned to where the speaker front is facing the skaters somewhat in the normal skate direction.


    I do plan on using those new Yamaha amps for whatever subs are chosen as the DSP will be beneficial for the subs and if those amps do have an output that can be set to high pass that will be even better.

  12. #42
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    While getting help at the speakerplan forums I decided to look at some cinema subs

    I found a JBL 4645C sub

    http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/subwoofers/4645c

    and figured I'd ask the JBL experts here if that would be a good choice.

    It is small enough to where I might be able to disperse more of them around the rink than I could with any scoops, G sub or dual 18" subs.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tube Radio View Post
    While getting help at the speakerplan forums I decided to look at some cinema subs

    I found a JBL 4645C sub

    http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/subwoofers/4645c

    and figured I'd ask the JBL experts here if that would be a good choice.

    It is small enough to where I might be able to disperse more of them around the rink than I could with any scoops, G sub or dual 18" subs.
    So. No longer going with bass horns?

  14. #44
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    They sort of steered me away from bass horns.

    They said go with the G sub after giving reasons why the horns wouldn't be very good.

    I saw a QSC GP-218-SW sub that was similar ti the G sub with better specs.

    They also said that what I'm after which is at minimum a -3dB point of 30Hz wasn't possible and to try for 40Hz while using some EQ around 60Hz where the chest thumping bass is.

    That wouldn't work for hip-hop that often has bass well below 40Hz.

    The problem with the current subs is this.

    If the frequency goes below 35Hz the bass output drops rapidly until the subs are just vibrating with no real acoustical output.

    Someone over there did just say that with those Yorkville subs in that big of a room I wouldn't get much sub 50Hz bass given they are front horn loaded subs which explains perfectly what I am hearing.

    Now question is will the JBL subs I posted here actually fit the bill or will I need a lot of them to do the job or is there something better that will work?

    In a way they are getting on my nerves trying to say the idea is not really possible versus trying to figure out what it will take to do it and then figuring out what can actually be done due to space.

    Now if horns are the best way to go given the large space I'll go that route as the cost would be much less due to needing less cabinets and less amplifier power.

    Doing calculations if I used 8 of the QSC subs 4 per corner including four QSC RMX-5050A amps I'm at a total of $27,439.96 and they recommended doing 8 double stacks of that sub.

    If I go with the JBL cinema sub I linked here with 8 subs (two per corner) and one QSC PLD4.5 I'm at $13,623.99

    I know going with scoops will get the cost down to under $10,000

  15. #45
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Have you visited a few clubs or outdoor events to see what "others" are doing?

    BTW Flat-to-30Hz is not that easy to do on a home system. Imagine what it takes for a rink.


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