Won't be long now and I will have them back in the house for a side by side test.
Won't be long now and I will have them back in the house for a side by side test.
Well-done! I especially like how the grilles turned out. How do they sound?Originally Posted by roblectric
Those grills turned out quite nice. Can you explain a bit more on what you mean by "flattened" expanded aluminum? Hope you took pics of the flattening process (just a hammer and anvil?), as I expect your idea may be adapted to a number of applications.
GeeDeeEmm
You buy it like that. Expanded metal comes either flat or raised (standard).
And Rob, please don't take the lack of replies vs views as a lack of interest - I know I love seeing these threads, but I generally have no relevant input so I just lurk.
First post here, just joined up today. Nice find, I have a set of HeathKit AS101's, basically Altec Valencias in nicer cabinets. I believe you have the 16 ohm version, early ones were 8 ohm. If your looking for schematics for the crossovers it matters a lot. The capacitor and inductor values will be different.
I was blown away from the sound of my AS101's when I got them. They had just been recapped as a bonus. Made the mistake of reading all I could find on Valencias and the AS101's and have been on a modifying binge ever since.
Started with replacing the 806 drivers with 902 drivers and adapter plates that I tapper bored to match the 7/8" exit hole of the 902 driver to the 1" hole in the 811 horns. Sounded better but the mid range was to hot. Added 30409 attenuator boards in the high frequency section and that really smoothed out the mid range. They really sounded good now. Diana Krall comes into my living room and sings just for ME! Superb midrange with awesome dynamics. Nice bass, they just sound so realistic.
So now I see that I have the same driver load as the flagship Model 19 speakers, just in a smaller volume cabinet. I wonder what a set of Model 19 crossovers would do? It moves the crossover point up from 800Hz to 1200Hz and adds L-pads for mid and HF attenuation. The L-pads do sort of what the 30409 attenuator does but allows adjustability. Sweet.
The crossovers are almost done, they are a bit of eye candy that will be mounted externally on top. Need to finish the walnut bases and get them installed. You can read about them here: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.p...-build.755361/
I would suggest that you either rebuild or replace the crossovers before making the decision to sell.
I know I'm on a JBL forum and it's my first post, hope I don't get escorted out of here. LOL
BillWojo
Nah, you're good, Bill. The header at the top of the forums:
General discussion on Lansing products (Altec Lansing, Lansing Manufacturing, JBL)
Welcome aboard!
Hi Bill,
And welcome to the board. I'm a newcomer here, too, but you'll find several familiar folks from the Altec site. I'm on the same crossover hunt that you are on, except that I'm still gathering parts and doing research for my first attempt.
Yesterday, I ran across a thread from Zilch in which he discussed the 30904 network again. In it, he offers numbers for converting the network to 16 ohm use and offers advice on inserting an Lpad to make the mid-frequency attenuation adjustable without affecting the hi frequency output. In essence, it becomes an easily-modified version of the 30904 while allowing you to keep your chosen crossover frequency. In case you haven't seen it:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.p...11-416.155640/
GeeDeeEmm
Yep, after I posted that question I began to think that I'd mis-interpreted his post. For some reason, that "flattened" adjective hit my feeble mind like a verb! Dumb.
GeeDeeEmm
Thanks for the welcome aboard guys.
Zilch's post about the 30409 attenuator is a good one. Since most if not all the parts are getting replaced to convert it to 16 ohm, it makes sense to just build them from scratch.
BillWojo
I've built both 8 and 16. One for me (8ohm) and one for a friend (16ohm). Well worth the price of admission. I think that was one of my very first posts on any type of forum.
Zilch was a good man and he is missed by all. I recently went on memory lane reading some of his project work here and on AK.
Thanks,
Scott
Note: 400th post
Congratulations on post #400, Scott! I wasn't active on the board(s) back when Zilch was still alive, but when I finally decided to build my long-wanted speaker system utilizing Altec A-7 components, his posts showed up first and I was introduced to "Zilch World!" What a rich volume of work he blessed us with! It seems as though every board has one or two "go-to" guys who are ready to invest hours of research and work to help others bring their projects to fruition. Zilch was the king of that kingdom.
On the 30904 topic, can you describe for me the sonic differences you encountered with the 30904 (ne, 30923) networks installed in the two projects you mention? Did you do any experimentation such as altering the R2 values? Do you feel that the frequencies affected were appropriate for best effect? Seems I recall reading that the network delivers about 6dB attenuation. Was that adequate in your case, or do you feel it needs to be deeper - say, in the range of 8-10dB? Did you notice any effect on the high frequencies other than making them more prominent? Do you feel that adding a super tweeter would be beneficial, or is the newly-found HF accentuation enough to add that "sparkle" or "air" that many feel is missing in the two-way Altec systems?
I know that your answers to these questions will be almost purely subjective, but that's what I want - your opinion. On the other hand, if you did any measurements pre-and post-network, that information would be quite welcome. (And measurement, in my opinion, is what made Zilch's work so fascinating and so important. While that kind of data certainly isn't the last word in speaker design, it certainly vividly displays that what we are doing - and hearing - is or is not the result of "wishful hearing!)
GeeDeeEmm
While I'm not Scott, I can give you my impression of the attenuator. After replacing the 806 drivers in my HeathKit AS101's with a set of 902's I noticed that the upper midrange was very hot. I had picked up a set of the 30409 attenuators from Ebay in anticipation of this. So I added them (never recapped them, I should have) and noticed a much more balanced output. They really made a nice difference. My late friend, David AKA Rex Aeterna was there when I made the change, he had great ears and said the high end was much better balanced. My hearing drops like a rock at 10K unfortunately. I even played a test CD with a frequency sweep, he told me when it shut off at 20K. So I guess that it works well on the upper end as well.
BillWojo
Going from memory in the stock configuration the 511 horn was really hot in the mids. With this crossover I felt everything was where it should be and it finally solved a problem I was fighting with for two years. I think I played around with R2 a bit since I turned it into a variable pot. My version of the 30904 also made it into a set of 846b's that I purchased. I tried to listen to them stock but just couldn't. I didn't feel it was too rolled off with either the 807 or 806 when comparing them to the model 19's, although adding a GPA 902 would have been my next move as Bill has mentioned. All of those Altecs ended up getting sold, although I do still miss them sometimes.
I have heard a pair of Flamincos at a local shop with a super tweeter added and they sounded nice. I only got 5 minutes with them though. With most cases I think when you add some extension on top, you should to add some extension on the bottom too, or at least check your ok down there. T
The 16ohm versions I built got mounted into a pair of 846A Valencia's. Here I felt the HF was a bit rolled off. I did eq these with a DBX 20/10 for a friend and they got better, but I remember the HF and LF received a big boost.
I will be trying to EQ another pair of Altecs (416/511/806A all in 16ohns)in the near future with using REW and an old school eq. It's of course not going to be perfect as DSP but hopefully listenable.
Unfortunately I don't have any measurements.....yet
Thanks,
Scott
Wow! Just when I thought this thread was going to die out and be a lurker classic. Finally finished the grill on the other speaker today. Next is getting them from the workshop into the house. I was able to get them from the tailgate of my truck and onto the sawhorse table by myself and that took everything this wore out body had in it. Getting them to the floor, where I can put a dolly under them, will require some assistance. I have already had two back surgeries and know my limitations.
How do they sound? At first I hooked them up to a modern Pioneer AV receiver and was not impressed. My other choice was a Sansui QR6500 that really woke them up. I cannot describe with detail, like some do, the nuances of lows,mid, and highs but I am not completely tone deaf. Should be after all the rock concerts I went to as a youngster. Popped in a cd of ZZtops greatest hits and immediately noticed some thump you in the chest bass and better overall mids and highs but something seemed missing. Took the same cd into the house and listened on my, ahem,vintage Pioneer system and found the detail that the Altec's lacked. I am sure a Zilch designed crossover would help but I haven't searched/found/saved to file the schematic yet.
Someone saw the JBL's I had and made me an offer that was too good to pass up. The woofers needed to be refoamed and I decided they were not a good choice for a first time rookie. I have a pair of JBL D123's that I will need to recone and will get my practice on them.
After re reading some of the old threads, the Behringer 3400 crossover was mentioned. Has anyone tried this with their stock 846A's?
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